Progress Thread The Official Gila Monster Build

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by madmike1157, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    I went into LowesI prefer Kobalt now a days. I like the red/blue band, and the laser etched size markings.Each 3/8" socket I needed was about 2.50 (3/8, 7/16,1/2) The 7/8" was like 5 something.

    I gotta think that they get killed on shrinkage, they have all the sockets individually right there on a pegboard so you can conveniently pocket them:rolleyes:
     
    #181
  2. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    Thanks Joe. I'm glad that a truck motor reminds you of me.o_O
     
    #182
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  3. RangerJoe

    RangerJoe Advanced Member

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    You would be amazed at what things remind me of you. ;)

    Joe
     
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  4. hoopty5.0

    hoopty5.0 Mustang Master

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    I have a question - and if it got answered already, please ignore me and continue - but I've been under a rock lately.

    You said the cam has to come from that place where they serve 'roo burgers and has a different firing order - lets say 12345. If you pair that with a 'Murican crank with firing order 54321, how's that gonna work? I think @Noobz347 had the same question but I never saw the answer.

    Other than that, I like the green idea.
     
    #184
  5. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    That's cause its still a point of contention.
    the stock u firing order is the same. Its the position and order of the valve opening " for that cylinder" that changes between the two. The stock head valve is inline, and goes (I think): I.e., e.i.,e.i.,I.e, e.i.,I.e.
    ( They put the intake valves together on 3 &4)
    the crossflow head valves are twisted, and canted, but 100% in order .

    So they simply change the opening order of the valves, ( NOT the firing order)
     
    #185
  6. RacEoHolic330

    RacEoHolic330 I like to dress like a pretty girl
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    It happens to the best of us.
     
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  7. hoopty5.0

    hoopty5.0 Mustang Master

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    Ah ha. I understand now.
     
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  8. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    The one thing that stood in the way of converting the limited option 3.3L 6 for the bigger 250 c.i L6 in my monty has been the lack of an oil pan to fit a fox. Why Ford saw fit to put that engine in Mavericks and Comets, Granadas, and every other thing that rolled but didn't see fit to make it an option for a fox is beyond me.

    I started by drawing a cut line to reference back to, and used a 4.5" grinder w/ a cut off wheel, and bolted the "foundation to my bare block.
    [​IMG]

    I bought, an oil pump and bolted the thing in place. Just for good measure, I taped an additional piece of 1/8" plate to the bottom to be sure I didn't bottom the pump against the pan.
    [​IMG]

    Next, I put another cut line reference on the 200 pan, and transposed a stand off reference from the oil pan rail "in inches", and marked it on the 200 pan, so as to be sure to space it properly from the 250 pan rail.

    [​IMG]

    Than I transferred the bottom of the 200 pan, onto the top of the 250 pan.
    Now I don't have to tell anybody here that the 250 pan is significantly wider than than a 200. So,...I had to build a filler strip to take up the slack.
    [​IMG]

    To keep warpage, down to a minimum, I moved around alot,..only a couple inch weld bead at a time. After I got it completely welded,
    I unbolted it to see if it had warped.......Nope.

    [​IMG]



    I decided to take a chance, and weld the inside of the pan. The filler strip was a catch point for oil, so I wanted to be sure that it couldn't seep down between the pan, and the strip. I welded the entire inside, all w/o the benefit of having the block to bolt it to to be sure it didn't warp on me.

    It did.

    Not bad though. I was able to run a few bolts on the one side, and pry a little on the other, and the thing came right back into line.
    [​IMG]

    Next will be arduous process of leak testing the thing. It'll be tough because the cut line is right below the seal lip.

    All in all, I'm glad it's behind me. It was alot of work, and took several hours. Why Ford didn't put a 250 in a fox is beyond me,...but today,...It really doesn't matter.
     
    #188
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  9. 95BlueStallion

    95BlueStallion Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting for my trans guy to find me the right case for my 70W. Thanks for giving me something to read.
     
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  10. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    Well,...The stuff I read led me to believe they (the 2 bolt starter bells) were everywhere. They are supposed to be behind a V6 (what was it?...a 3.8) How many damn V-6, auto trans 01-03 Mustangs are out there? I would think a bazillion. Whats the problem then?
     
    #190
  11. 95BlueStallion

    95BlueStallion Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that its really hard to get people to stand behind their work these days. I told him my application, he missed it based on a small detail that makes a HUGE difference, and is him hawing about making it right because its already paid for. I am going to stay on him though, he is the tranny guy and should have a small bit of knowledge.
     
    #191
  12. Mintsick

    Mintsick Active Member

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    Very nice work on the pan, looks great.
     
    #192
  13. RacEoHolic330

    RacEoHolic330 I like to dress like a pretty girl
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    I was going to ask how you're going to leak test that. Fill it with mineral spirits and see what happens?
     
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  14. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    Yeah,....it's either that, or water. I still gotta weld a drop sump into it(like 2"), and add an anti slosh baffle, as well as the T/C drain back, and dipstick tube fitting. The real problem w/ that is the filler strip is above the semicircles that are the front/rear timing cover/rear main seal areas. How to fill the pan to get it up high enough to ck that before it spills over those areas.
    The pan is bolted to the bare block again, and is in the engine compartment attached to the 4r70w. I am in the process of trying to make the stupid trans fit (which it don't, I had to cut part of the drivers' side tunnel), and building the trans crossmember similar like I did on the red car.

    [​IMG]

    This makes sense to me, more so than why use the stock mounts and have to build a hump for the exhaust to get by.

    It requires that I plate the floor from inside w/ a 6 x 8" piece of 1/8" plate and stick those two little ears down through to bolt the cross member to. I'm making the one for the the Gila Monster out of 1/8" plate as well w/ side rails to add strength while keeping it as lean as possible, but as usual, I spent several hours and have little to show for it.
     
    #194
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  15. 95BlueStallion

    95BlueStallion Well-Known Member

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    Anything new, ya wannabe redneck?
     
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  16. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    Well,.....yes. As long as you don't have to have pics.

    • I finally got the trans crossmember built. For whatever reason,..it took for freakin ever to build it. Like the red car, I relocated the actual mount points to the tunnel, and plated the floor w/.125" plate.
    • I got the big, giant hole covered on the driver side of the tunnel covered w/ a 7 x 12" piece of 18 ga. sheet metal.
    • I bought the Borg Warner s300sx-3 60 mm turbo that will be my wheezer.
    • I spent all day yesterday drilling, sawing, and cutting holes in what started as a piece of 1/2" thick plate. Now it kinda resembles an exhaust flange. I still have a couple of hours before it's pic worthy though. ( I never take pics of any of my OMG start points anymore).
    • I decided to make my turbo manifold out of steam pipe. (At least that's the way it started)
    Although there are probably several wrong ways to build an exhaust manifold to feed the turbo, there are basically 4 " sanitary" choices for material when it comes to building an exhaust header for a turbo:
    #1. Thin wall mild steel J bends ( like 16ga. header style material)
    #2. Thin wall 304L stainless J bends.
    #3. Schedule 10 ( like .100" thick) 304L stainless steam pipe 90 degree bends.
    #4 Schedule 40 ( like .140" thick) mild steel steam pipe 90 degree bends.

    Since this is a street car, and durability wins over weight, both one and two were ruled out right away.
    #3 is actually cheaper that #4, but since I have a mild steel turbo flange, I didn't like the different thermal expansion properties of the two dissimilar metals, and the potential for cracking that could come as a result, so I decided to keep it all mild steel.

    When you look up butt-weld 1.5" steam pipe fittings, you'll find McMaster-Carr.com. They sell those 90 degree fittings in schedule 40 thickness for like 12.00 ea. I thought that didn't sound so bad initially, until I laid it out:

    The Borg Warner turbo is a twin scroll, which requires that I feed it w/ two sets of three tubes, as opposed to one log-jammed cluster,...so you're basically building two headers, each w/ their own waste gate. By the time I got the mock-up done, trying to keep each tube as close to the same length as possible I ended up w/ 26 of those 90's........

    TWENTY SIX:eek:!

    Still, when you add it up that's only like 250.00 in materials...but I wasn't expecting that. So I do the next best thing instead: I improvise,....I adapt,....... I overcome.

    I go get 26 black pipe 90's from the plumbing section at one of our pipe makers here in the city instead. ($50.00)

    The problem w/ that is that these pipe fittings are threaded, and even the 1-1/4" pipe is HUGE,...w/ an i.d. bigger than 1.5"
    The pipe I get instead is 1",..which goes the other way,...even with the threads removed,....is only 1-3/8":bang:

    I "tested" a piece yesterday,..and cut away the threads (w/ a hole saw it only took 15 sec's). It's just too small.
    Actually, if I intended to leave the exhaust valves, and ports stock,...it'd be perfect....but I already opened one of the ports to match the 1.5" hole I cut in that flange,....and now that I have a turbo that is rated to support 800 HP.......The port has to be at least 1.5" if that is ever to happen. Looks like I'll be placing an order w/ Mc Master-Carr after all.

    So to answer your question.......yes. I have "new" things to talk about.
     
    #196
  17. 95BlueStallion

    95BlueStallion Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good! I'll be watching for pics after reading your other thread about the pipes as well.
     
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  18. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    Today I spent the entire day in the garage. Yesterday I met w/ the turbo supplier. He said the my turbo should've been in, but naturally, it wasn't. So instead he mocked up a turbine, and compressor housing so I could build the header. My T-4 flange did come in, so all I needed was the mock up housing to get started.
    ( Actually, I started building it Wednesday, but now that stuff was getting critical fitment -wise,...I thought better of plowing forward until I had the actual turbo)

    I don't know,....maybe I'm getting old(er), but it seems that despite the fact that I spend all day doing something,....there is still an unfinished project left with stuff to do. That is the case again today.

    But,..(I digress). When I went down stairs, this is what I had staring at me:
    [​IMG]

    For those of you that have never built a header from scratch this is the process:
    1. Take an elbow, hold it up against the header flange ( the one you built from scratch last week).
    2. Close one eye, pull the welding hood down, and buzz a small tack weld to hold it in place,...based on your eyeballed judgement.
    3. Cut a segment of straight tubing,.....hold it up against your newly placed elbow. If it looks good, get your grinder and **bevel the mating surfaces to insure good weld penetration. If not, take the same grinder, and "modify" the mating surface angle until it fits the way you want it. When it does,....bevel the weld surfaces. While holding the piece w/ one gloved hand, use your other hand to "feel" the fitment, to be sure that you are not welding the thing at some goofy-assed angle. When you are happy w/ it,.....buzz a couple of small tack welds.
    ** The only reason I have to bevel these tubes in preparation for welding is because I'm using mild steel, 1.5" i.d. .145" wall steam pipe, since this is going to be a turbo header. Standard wall tubing ( 16/18 ga.) requires no prep, other than making sure the tubing and angles line up properly.
    4. The process marches along like described above until you have an entire tube completed. Once that is accomplished, break the tack weld from the header flange,..and weld all of the joints for the entire tube. I chose to grind the welds smooth after that, purely for aesthetics. You could leave the snag-u-lated welds standing proud for all of your homies to see online if you choose,..and if you do,...expect a smart assed comment from me dogging you for displaying those same "less than T.I.G. quality welds". Besides,..w/ tubing that is over an 1/8" thick,..there is plenty of weld holding the tubes together even after grinding the joints smooth,..so I had nothing to lose.
    ** As a foot note to the above,..it's important to realize that despite the fact that you are grinding steel outside,....in the open air,.....you are still creating a fairly significant amount of dust. While you may disregard the notion that there is no way you're actually breathing any of that junk in (considering the open air and all), you may wanna think twice. After a day spent grinding all of that steel...you are in fact breathing an entire erector set into your head. You may elect to use a respirator.
    Now I on the other hand, choose to ignore my own advice. I think it shows progress when after the work is done, you taste iron in the back of your throat, spit and blow black snot out of your head for about an hour afterwards.
    * note to self:.......use a respirator next time.
    5. After the tube is complete, and ground smooth,.I reattach the thing to the flange w/ a much more serious tack this time. and move on to one of the adjacent tubes.
    ** This header is for a twin scroll turbo. Kinda like a twin-turbo system w/0 the twin turbos. The T-4 flange is divided, wherein one half of the engine feeds one side of the flange,..and the other half feeds the other. The design objective then was to build (two) three equal length tube headers to accommodate the twin scroll flange. The benefit to a twin scroll turbo is that it takes advantage of the engine's exhaust pulses more efficiently, and in theory spools the turbo more quickly. If there is a down side to the system,..is that it requires a more intricate header design,....and two wastegates.
    Now as a dislaimer in advance,....my header submitted here is certainly no example of some intricate design.....it is actually pretty crude by most twin scroll headers out there. But it is functional,...achieves the design criteria to make the twin scroll turbo work properly, and because it's built out of steam pipe,...should last forever.

    The end of the day had me at this point:
    [​IMG]
    I made the two center tubes drop lower than the outside 4 tubes in an attempt to even them up length-wise. What I ended up with was in fact two center tubes that are 1" longer than the #1, and #6 tubes instead. I could leave it and say WTF,..but again that's not me. I'll probably end up cutting the damn tubes and shortening them comensurately. I hope I can get the welder all the way around the tubes after I do that. ( I think I can).

    [​IMG]

    The turbo will sit about even, or slightly above the valve cover when you draw a line across engine compartment.
    The oil drain will angle back between the opening between tubes 3 &4,.( I'll use a threaded pipe nipple to avoid the hot-assed header,...once I get it south of that,..I'll change it over to -10 from there)

    I'll make a simple colloctor so that each one of those three tube clusters will neck down small enough to feed one of those tiny little holes on the T-4 flange

    [​IMG]
    It looks like a mile above the tubes,...but it's actually about 5".

    An additional note worth mentioning is that while working with gloves is cumbersome , and you have no sense of feel w/ them on,....just as soon as you tell yourself that all you're gonna do is just tack this piece in place,...a little molten ball of weld spatter will almost assuredly land right in the palm of your hand.....( as evidenced above, by the little brown dot)

    That brings you up to date again.....I should be able to finish them the next time I go at it,..and I'll post the "done" pics when that time comes.

    Cya.
     
    #198
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  19. 95BlueStallion

    95BlueStallion Well-Known Member

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    Great work man, I cant wait to see how this all ends up eventually.
     
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  20. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
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    I notice the narrowness of the divider between the 2 ports on the flange you are holding. It looks to be almost the same width as the tube thickness.

    if you use 2 individual collector tubes, how are you going to weld the second collector tube in once the first collector tube is in place? There doesn't look like there is enough room to weld the other in once the first tube is welded in place.

    Unless the thickness of the divider an illusion, your collector tubes are going to have to fit inside the ports on the flange. Then they will have to be welded from the face side and then smoothed off. But then again, I am not a welder and don't know all the tricks.
     
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