Thumper Performance E7 Heads : Who has them and how is the performance?

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by fiveoho, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. RIO5.0

    RIO5.0 Mustang Master

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    Travis....what's up....

    my niece has a 95 Z28 she runs at NED so we beat em up. her best was a 13.2 with a chip / exhaust / CAI.. my best was 13.6 @ 102
     
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  2. gmkillr

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    As you stated earlier, I wasnt speaking of you, and I wont single anybody out, but I will offer this. Saying that a set of ported stock heads is more cost efficient than a set of aluminum heads is crazy. A well put together ported stock head combo will net you in the 260-285rwhp, some are higher, but i'd have to says thats the average. Any what do you pay for ported stock heads? $700 or so, spring for a set of gt-40 heads $300-$400 then add in the porting, another $600 or so and you get into the $900-$1000 range. I inquired to a well know head porter, to have my gt-40 irons done by him and his quote was $900, and I already own the heads, if I had to buy them that would have been another $300.
    So now we're at $1200 for a set of ported gt-40 irons.:shrug: Then we have to add in shipping them to the porter at about $75, and he'll pay the return shipping back to you as its included in the $900 porting price.
    I bought a brand new set of Trickflow heads, never installed for $695 on the corral. I know deals like this dont come along very often but used low mileage aluminum heads always go for between $750-$1000, lots of times they can be just bolted on, but lets say they need to be serviced at the machine shop.
    Cleanup pass on the deck, new spring package, lets say $200-$300. So now were looking at a ballpark of $1150 for used heads that have been checked over and are ready to go. We'll then you can buy Trickflow Twisted wedge heads brand new for $1199 from Summit, and it will only be $10.95 for shipping them to you.
    Now a well thought out aluminum headed combo will net you in the 300-325 rwhp range. Some more, some less, but thats about the average.

    Ported stock heads
    $700-$1275 shipped
    260-285rwhp

    Used or new aluminum heads
    $800-$1210 shipped
    300-325rwhp

    Lets not forget the 45-50lb. weight drop off of the front end.
    Now what makes more econimical sense to the guys who play the budget card?
    Im sure you could have your stock heads ported by your cousins neighbors college roomate for $200 but hey you get what you pay for. The prices I used for the ported stock heads are from a very well know stock head porter that I wish not to name.

    Now when I say "Alot of bad info here", you know what I mean.
    Theres no comparison.:shrug:
    Nearly the same price for 45rwhp more and 45lbs. less weight.:shrug:
     
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  3. fiveoho

    fiveoho Active Member

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    im curious, care to post that?
     
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  4. blksn955.o

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    Very nice breakdown and point of view.

    I preach the same thing about the comparo of ported stock E7's to box stock GT40's only siding with the proted E7's. I am NOT comparing any iron head to an alum. head but iron to iron. I say make your goal and set it in stone how you want to reach that goal...changing mid way threw always costs more no matter how good of deals you find.

    I got my gt40's for 400$ and then a mill/tank/spring upgrade for the TFS1 cam. in the end I had a sick :eek: amount in a set of BOX stock cobra heads. While for about what I paid to get into those heads I could have had some fresh ready to go E7's that would have probably made as much if not a tad bit more power than my stock gt40's.

    In hind site the ported E7's would have been better over the gt40's. I agree 110% at those price levels alum. would be the way to go...the only time I would say maybe not is if you already had gt40's stock then the work is going to be hard to beat. I also knew I did not want more that what I would get out of an iron headed combo due to the bottle and NO desire to faster than what that would give me.

    I was and still am VERY greatfull for the help I got from Thumper and Tmoss on my currant setup as well as others on this and my local site. As I have gained more knowledge and exp. my goal is to just have fun and talk shop with like minded people and meet some cool people/gear heads while doing so. I will say this about thumper...he ported my heads for free and I will defend that offer and his work as I think it was one HELLOVA great/nice/extended hand to help a fellow gearhead, I can not express how thankfull I am for that offer :hail2: .
     
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  5. fiveoho

    fiveoho Active Member

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    im not sure where those figures are coming from. you can pick up take off gt40's quite often for $250. $240 at the machine shop will get you a 3 angle, surfacing, magnafluxing, cleanup, hot tank. add springs to accept a small cam, $150 .so now we are at $640 ready to go . and thats a fresh set of heads. on corral, there is a guy right now that has a set of ported gt40s fresh valve job and cleanup, etc with a set of springs for $500 shipped. he is the owner of super six motorsports.

    a minimum 300 rwhp is hard to get even with aluminums in alot of cases. granted its easier to get with aluminums but LOTS of guys with expensive aluminum heads do not see 290 rwhp.

    Ported stock heads
    $700-$1275 shipped
    260-285rwhp

    Used or new aluminum heads
    $800-$1210 shipped
    300-325rwhp


    i respectfully do not agree with those figures at all.


    i dont see "alot of bad info here" in the thread
     
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  6. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

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    :D

    Grady

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. gmkillr

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    Please show me where you get a 3-angle valve job, surfacing, cleanup, hot tank. add springs for $240?
    Thats just crazy!!
    A good valve job costs between $120-$170 all by itself
    Surfacing goes for $40-$60
    Springs go for $100-$200 depending on what you need
    I'd say more like $300-$310 for all of the above posted
    The cheapest ive seen gt-40's go for is $300 shipped
    What do Thumpers ported E7's cost? $700
    What do gt-40 irons cost? $300
    What does Thumper charge for porting the gt-40 irons w/ new springs? $900+ you have to ship them to him which would be another $75
    So how are my #'s off?
    If you dont make 300rwhp w/ a set of aluminum heads, you are doing something wrong. Plain & simple.:shrug:
     
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  8. blksn955.o

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    I would have to say the avg. price on gt40 heads is more around $400. You can find them cheaper but like used alum. heads it is not always the case. FWIW...my springs cost me a tad over $200 alone.

    I also think this has gotten to be more of a ported gt40 issue than a ported E7 debate.

    My breakdown/thinking is this.

    If you want a nice mild iron head combo there are 2 basics...

    1. If you have a stock GT 302 porting the heads can get good results for outlay of cash.

    2. If you have a cobra with gt40's stock you will get good results for outlay of cash this route.

    If you want to go beyond a mild fun street car and make more than 250-290 rwhp (depending on combo) and feel you will grow to want more power alum. is going to be very hard to beat.

    1st and formost however, to get any real gain on the street or track the most important thing is going to be the driver and how well he knows his car.
     
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  9. fiveoho

    fiveoho Active Member

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    Precision Auto Machine of McMinnville, TN

    that price was as of the 24th of this month. and yes, it included all that.
     
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  10. blksn955.o

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    When I asked thumper how much it would cost for the work done he said it was the same price for the gt40's as the E7's. If you did not need the springs and such I think is was around $650 but that is the ballpark of the $700 you posted. You also need to factor in that port job also includes a mill, tank, valve job, inspection of valves and paint. So the actuall port job is not bad at all.
     
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  11. gmkillr

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    I never said it was that bad, just not economically , compared to aluninum heads.
    He'll, Im making over 500 at the wheels w/ bonestock heads, so if anybody should be on the stock head side it should be me. I'll soon be making over 550rwhp still w/ the stock heads & ported stock intake. I wanted to get my gt-40 irons ported but thought $975 was too steep for what I'd gain in comparison to buying a set of aluminum heads @ $1200. So for $225 more, i'll have more power, less weight, and a set of heads that can still be ported in the future for even more h.p.
    But I ended up getting the deal of all deals on a set of Trickflows for under $700 brand new shipped. The deals are out there, you just have to look, they only come by once in a blue moon.:nice:
     
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  12. Pokageek

    Pokageek Active Member

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    Oh, my gosh, I can't kep up with all these comments, lol. Let's start out by saying aluminum heads are great!! I also want to say those of yo uin the aluminum 5.0 crowd, thanks for not flaming me. Its just one debate.

    BUT Grady, I did not get 309rwhp with my trick flows.. I got 290... So anyway 275rwhp?...I would have taken that in a hearbeat for $500 Rio paid for his head vs my $1300+ for trick flows. That's my main point. I would like to know in your comparison..were they gt40 p's? or just gt40's? thx.

    "Lets not forget the 45-50lb. weight drop off of the front end."

    This is made out to be a much much bigger deal than it is and didn't make a hill of beans on my street car in my o. I didn't even feel the 100# taken of after the aluminums aAND removing the a/c. Now.. on the track I would see 1/10th and to that I say wohhoo ... big deal. :shrug: To me it made no difference at all. Being 15feet further down the road on a street car or just 7 feet ahead ( for the weight difference in iron vs alum) makes very little difference. 0-60 all the way to 90mph, you are still going to be neck and neck! Again I am just street.

    "Now what makes more econimical sense to the guys who play the budget card?
    Im sure you could have your stock heads ported by your cousins neighbors college roomate for $200 but hey you get what you pay for. The prices I used for the ported stock heads are from a very well know stock head porter that I wish not to name."

    Porting out the heads and paying for it is a bad idea I think also $$ wise. Yes. However if your cousins brother's uncle is good at it and don't charge much..it may be a consideration.

    "Now when I say "Alot of bad info here", you know what I mean.
    Theres no comparison.
    Nearly the same price for 45rwhp more and 45lbs. less weight."

    I think I missed the 45rwhp part by a mile. In most scenarios..itlooks more like and average of like 30rwhp at best and unless you are driving around at wot all the time, you won't feel it. In my case my car (and I think grady's aluminums are running just over 290rwhp - plenty more where that came from) when theres plenty of irons running 270- 275 and I think one guy got 280rwhp out of his. 45lbs again, don't mean anything to me. It might as well be 5# in the real world. At the track it may be a little ifferent over all.
     
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  13. fiveoho

    fiveoho Active Member

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  14. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

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    Keith ... The iron heads in that first combo were regular 40's just as listed :)
    btw ... Note that they were ... ported

    Honestly ... From everything I've seen ... I really haven't seen all that much
    difference between the 40's and 40p's :shrug:

    Keith ... you said you made 290 with your TFS heads
    and
    I'd have to say the same about my AFR's

    But ... that doesn't mean those results are the norm

    I selected those two combos to compare as they kinda fell into an average.
    I certainly can find lower and higher results in both head types

    I honestly don't have many iron head based combos that are in my dyno
    files so they are kinda slim pickins you might say.

    A few things about looking at all these dyno combo results :D

    It is not an exact science or anything like that :nono:

    I do like the fact a driver and his skill is not a factor with this method :nice:

    Many things can skew the results such as ......
    Different rates of calibration, state of tune, and the like

    Then there is always different parts used and how it can effect the results

    But ... Never the Less ...
    You look at enough of em ... and ... Trends will be seen :Word:

    Grady
     
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  15. gmkillr

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    We'll if you want to play that card, then you can also play this one.......:shrug:
    When you lose a race at the track or on the street or wherever, you can pull over after the race is over and tell the guy you just lost to, (aluminum heads) that he spent more money on his heads and his car is lighter, thats why you lost. Its an excuse, 1st. person to the other side wins.:nice:
    BTW, the #'s I was using were average for ported stockers: 270rwhp
    Average for aluminum: 315rwhp
    A set of Trickflows/AFR's/Canfields and a good cam, not an alphabet cam or a trickflow cam, w/ a nice intake Holley/ Edelbrock/ etc.. will net you in the 315rwhp range if you have all of the supporting bolt- ons, longtubes, t.b., maf, fuel system, etc..
    Im done with this subject, as I wont continue this as you will believe what you want anyway. Im getting busy building my $695 Trickflow headed combo....:D
     
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  16. Pokageek

    Pokageek Active Member

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    Sure Gmkiller. First, to let yo uknow, I really admire your accomplishments and your car. Yo uhave a truely amazing amount of HP you are getting out of your car! BUT you and I are a clear example of street vs track. I am an na street guy and you are a blown track guy. Apples vs oranges.

    I hear your card argument. But we can torment ourselves with that card ..for example..I looked a the setup in your sig so I could say

    "When you lose a race at the track or on the street or wherever, because you went with a small c.i. motor and there is a guy with your same setup but bigger c.i., you can pull over after the race is over and tell the guy you just lost to, (big block c.i. or blower) that he spent more money on his engine and his car is more powerful, thats why you lost. Its an excuse, 1st. person to the other side wins."

    There will always be someone faster than you. Stick to your plan and your finances not someone elses.

    #2 You are a lucky guy! $695 heads are a STEAL the last time I checked. I didn't find any for that price. I looked everywhere and could not find them or I would have bought them.

    #3 Average rwhp is like political polling. Depends on the sample population taken. 315rwhp is the average in YOUR world not mine. :) For a street car (with my preference) I don't want my mirrors to be shaking off the car at a light just so I can prove I am faster tha nthe next guy. Ok, ok maybe not the mirrors falling of lol. But then you will have to up the avg for irons with a more radical combo.

    There has to be a limit somewhere. So In conclusion, Irons are a GREAT alternative to someone on a budget if you can't find aluminums in your time or cash you want to pay. And there will always be somebody faster. That's my only point. :SNSign:
     
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  17. fiveoho

    fiveoho Active Member

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    maybe on a dynojet :shrug:

    i've seen mild HCI alum headed 302's make 315 rwhp, but i dont think thats a average number for most.


    and when did racing come into this discussion? my original inquiry was asking what kinda of performance thumper e7's produced. i never implied i wanted to beat aluminum headed HCI cars.

    no disrespect. just trying to keep the thread on rails. carry on
     
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  18. fiveoho

    fiveoho Active Member

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    :Word:
     
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  19. RIO5.0

    RIO5.0 Mustang Master

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  20. 95Vert

    95Vert New Member

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    What's your 'mild' HCI combo?

    I have no shame, I WANT and once things are sorted out with my heads, I WILL take out several aluminum headed 302s.
     
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