Tune Issues...

Adam95GT

Adam95GT

New Member
Aug 14, 2006
2,564
3
0
Burlington, NJ
#1
Well im currently trying to tackle some other issues on the car but i figured while at home i could work on some tune issues...

Looking at data logs from a wot run im seeing low voltage from my HEGO's

IIRC this means im running lean..

My Wideband also reads lean...

HOWEVER i failed inspection for having my HC's 8 times the limit... :shrug:


This leads me to believe im running rich... Very Very Rich... so rich that im shooting unburnt fuel in to my exhaust and im reading lean. :shrug:

SO in order to start to tune this thing i need guidance.... First im told to get my Maf transfer for my 24lb pro m maf.

Done.

Ive also uploaded the 24lb injector template.

And pulse width for long tubes.

Now i was told to "remap the LAMSE table for OL startup and OL stabilized"

How do i go about doing that? I want to pull 5%-10% fuel to test my theory stated above. I also need to know how to do that...

Thanks,
Adam

306, Keith Black Flat Top Pistons, TFS/KPI HiPorts, Wolverine 1190 Cam, TFS Track Heat, 1 3/4'' Accufab Headers, 70MM Accufab TB, 24lb Injectors, 24lb Pro M maf, Innovate LC1, Moates QH, BE, EECA
 
#2
What are the KAMRF showing. Anything above 1.0 is lean and below 1.0 is rich.

To lean the OL startup table Highlight the sections of the table you need and hit alt+d(= divide function) in BE then divide by 1.05 to remove 5% fuel from that selection of the table. I only did the low ECT/low load section of the table. For me it was easy as my car surged like mad from being to rich on cold starts.

Not sure why you would want to change the stabilized table unless you are running e10 or e15 which have different stoich values then gasoline. If the car is to lean or rich it is normally in the MAF transfer or injector slope/battery offsets. Make sure you have a good charged battery and charging system as this changes how your injectors open/close. I chased my tail for a while because of a dead battery.
 
#3
bayellowstang said:
What are the KAMRF showing. Anything above 1.0 is lean and below 1.0 is rich.

To lean the OL startup table Highlight the sections of the table you need and hit alt+d(= divide function) in BE then divide by 1.05 to remove 5% fuel from that selection of the table. I only did the low ECT/low load section of the table. For me it was easy as my car surged like mad from being to rich on cold starts.

Not sure why you would want to change the stabilized table unless you are running e10 or e15 which have different stoich values then gasoline. If the car is to lean or rich it is normally in the MAF transfer or injector slope/battery offsets. Make sure you have a good charged battery and charging system as this changes how your injectors open/close. I chased my tail for a while because of a dead battery.
Click to expand...

Kamrf's are from 1-1.25 but i know the car is pig rich..
 
#6
Adam95GT said:
Well im currently trying to tackle some other issues on the car but i figured while at home i could work on some tune issues...

Looking at data logs from a wot run im seeing low voltage from my HEGO's

IIRC this means im running lean..

My Wideband also reads lean...

HOWEVER i failed inspection for having my HC's 8 times the limit... :shrug:


This leads me to believe im running rich... Very Very Rich... so rich that im shooting unburnt fuel in to my exhaust and im reading lean. :shrug:

SO in order to start to tune this thing i need guidance.... First im told to get my Maf transfer for my 24lb pro m maf.

Done.
Click to expand...

If you are gonna run 24's ... I would upload the j4j1 file and you will get
a BUNCH OF STUFF good to go with one easy quick upload :banana:

Ive also uploaded the 24lb injector template.
Click to expand...

I don't know what this means :shrug:

And pulse width for long tubes.
Click to expand...

I loaded in all kinds of different date here :crazy:
Honestly ... I never could see any of it made a diff I could see :shrug:

Now i was told to "remap the LAMSE table for OL startup and OL stabilized"
Click to expand...

I can't say I can relate to what you are saying :shrug:
BUT
See below

How do i go about doing that? I want to pull 5%-10% fuel to test my theory stated above. I also need to know how to do that...

Thanks,
Adam
Click to expand...

Adam ... Let me get you started with some VERY BASIC info about fuel
and WOT tuning that worked for me :)

First we will assume all mechanical stuff is all good to go such as ........
no vaccum leaks
no exhaust leaks
all electrical connections OK
and the like

Next you wanna get your maf transfer all good to go

Next I would tell you to work on the Closed Loop part of your tune

This part of the tune is all about ............
low load driving conditions which I would break down to 3 parts
1) idle
2) cruise
3) Very ... one more time ... V E R Y ... light acceleration conditions

You should be able to get stable K's by adjusting inj data such as
low/high slope
timing table
breakpoint
offset

For a stable idle you'll want to take a look at
idle speed
isc settings
tb airflow rate
neutral idle airflow
maf transfer points at idle voltage and 1 point below and above

Get to know the point of your maf transfer curve (maf voltage can help
you relate to this as well) where below that point is Closed Loop and
above that point is Open Loop

You will use the top part of the curve as your Open Loop part or if you
prefer WOT part of your tune

Here is where I believe someone told you to remap things :shrug:

In a nutshell here is how I did it

You wanna go to the fuel table that is used for WOT

As a a starting point work with the top (highest load) 2 rows

Make em fat ...
by the way ... When doing WOT fuel tuning you want
BIG FUEL ... little spark :Word:

You wanna dial back your spark a good bit here :nice:

anyway

Make your values fat like 12.25 to 1.00

The idea here is gonna be to make your fuel table and your wb match
that way
You just chnage the table values and you'll know what to expect

Once this is done ... Your wb pretty muchly becomes obsolete ;)

I'd tell you to split the upper part of this curve in two parts :D
the speed gets quite high as you go higher in the curve :crazy:

More importantly :eek:
You wanna know you are ... ROCK SOLID ... on your understanding
of what you are doing here so you know for sure a tweec in one
directon or the other is gonna make you fatter or leaner :Word:

Just start at the first point in the curve that is OL or WOT and tune to like
whatever is around say 60 mph or so

You adjust the points to get closer to a wb output of 12.25 AFR

Your wb does output to your dlogs :nice: ... Correct ???

Well ... That ought to get you thinking about things :rlaugh:

The info is quite general but we got to start somewhere ;)

Think about the concept here :scratch:
and
Let me know if it makes sense

I will try to splain it better if needed :)
or
Fill in the blanks that I left out :(

306, Keith Black Flat Top Pistons, TFS/KPI HiPorts, Wolverine 1190 Cam, TFS Track Heat, 1 3/4'' Accufab Headers, 70MM Accufab TB, 24lb Injectors, 24lb Pro M maf, Innovate LC1, Moates QH, BE, EECA
Click to expand...

Adam95GT said:
Grady these values are from a stock tune with a 24lb pro m maf.

In order to start tuning i know i need to force open loop.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Click to expand...

Why would you wanna do that :scratch:

Grady
 
#7
Forcing OL and tuning with a wideband is what everyone suggests on eectuning.org.

I would do it like Grady says use CL and kamrf's for the bottom half of the curve and then the WB for the OL/top half of the curve. I already have my bottom 2/3 done this way, when I finally weld in a bung for my WB I will use it for the top half.

Just because you loaded the MAF curve from Pro-m doesn't mean it flows those exact numbers in your intake track. You will have to make small tweaks to it to get it dead on.


The templates he is talking about is for use with the Binary Editor software. You can select any different numbers of table/scalars/functions and save them as a template when you know they are right. Then you can add that template to any tune. Most of the templates are known values like injector/battery voltage, high/low slopes, injector timing tables and things like that that don't/shouldn't change from tune to tune. I don't think they are the fix all/end all everyone else does though. I loaded the 30# injector template into my tune and it ran way worse. The voltage offsets were different then what I got from Fords website for the red top 30's. The only one I use is egr/thermactor disable template.
 
#9
You cleared up some stuff for me Steve :nice:

I'm not all that familiar with the tuning methods of the past several years :(

I basically cut my self tuning teeth back when self tuning was just getting started :shrug:

I've always been afraid of using other peeps data cause you have no way
of knowing if they know what they are doing :crazy: :rlaugh:

Grady
 
#11
final5-0 said:
Sure Thing :nice:

We covered a lot of stuff in the above posts :crazy:

I'm happy to take the time to go over it all bit by bit and help if I can :D

I don't know it all :nono:
but
I DO know what worked for me ;)

Grady
Click to expand...

Grady thank you so much man. As you know i do my best to use what i learn from people to help others :nice:

Does my thoughts of running so rich that my Hego's and WB are reading lean make sense... the car bogs bad and feels like it wants to take off... ill hear a back fire in the exhaust and then it will take off. :rlaugh:

That and the HC reading being 8x's the legal limit and im showing lean seems odd.

I checked for vac leaks at idle and found nothing noticeable :shrug:

Basically ive been reading and i know what things do... but need to learn what tables to change.

Im considering slapping on the stock maf with a J4J1 and see if it makes it run any better.
 
#12
Adam95GT said:
Grady thank you so much man. As you know i do my best to use what i learn from people to help others :nice:

Does my thoughts of running so rich that my Hego's and WB are reading lean make sense... the car bogs bad and feels like it wants to take off... ill hear a back fire in the exhaust and then it will take off. :rlaugh:

That and the HC reading being 8x's the legal limit and im showing lean seems odd.

I checked for vac leaks at idle and found nothing noticeable :shrug:

Basically ive been reading and i know what things do... but need to learn what tables to change.

Im considering slapping on the stock maf with a J4J1 and see if it makes it run any better.
Click to expand...

The idea of using the OEM meter is a good one :nice:

It would match up GREAT with the Cobra file and 24's

This would take the maf transfer thing out of the loop for an amount
of time which you could use to get the hang of tuning for both CL
and OL :banana:

One thing to be careful with here :eek:

You could peg the meter so you wanna kinda sneek up on a max rpm
WOT blast test run :rlaugh:

Just limit your first blast to like 4500
and then add like 500 more to each run

Of course you wanna be keepin an eye on the Maf Volts Data :)

anywho ... lemme know if I can help :D

Grady
 
#13
final5-0 said:
The idea of using the OEM meter is a good one :nice:

It would match up GREAT with the Cobra file and 24's

This would take the maf transfer thing out of the loop for an amount
of time which you could use to get the hang of tuning for both CL
and OL :banana:

One thing to be careful with here :eek:

You could peg the meter so you wanna kinda sneek up on a max rpm
WOT blast test run :rlaugh:

Just limit your first blast to like 4500
and then add like 500 more to each run

Of course you wanna be keepin an eye on the Maf Volts Data :)

anywho ... lemme know if I can help :D

Grady
Click to expand...


With the ProM maf my datalogs are showing a voltage of 4.01 at 5500rpm..

But then when reading though it i saw a random jump to 4.33 from 3.67 at about 5k :shrug:


If you want i can send you the log to take a look
 
#14
Adam95GT said:
With the ProM maf my datalogs are showing a voltage of 4.01 at 5500rpm..

But then when reading though it i saw a random jump to 4.33 from 3.67 at about 5k :shrug:


If you want i can send you the log to take a look
Click to expand...

I don't have the software to look at your dlogs

I forgot to say you can find a bit of fudge room on the maximum amount
of meter voltage output which will extend things if you need it :nice:

IIRC ... the default max amount is like 4.7 or 4.8 or somewhere around
that amount

Seems like you can bump it up to like 4.999999

I had to do that little trick when I was using the little meter with my 30's ;)

Grady
 
#16
.CSV is invalid upload here.

Wes if you want to take a look i can email it to you.


I uploaded it here id your a member

EECTuning.org • View topic - Getting started, What values to deal with first.



Im pretty sure there is no leaks of anykind.

Exhaust wise ive had the car up on a lift and felt around everywhere and made sure its solid...

Ive sprayed starting fluid under the intake manifold and at all the vac connections and didnt find any leaks.

Here is a video of vac at idle
http://s688.photobucket.com/albums/vv245/cjr2003firefly2/new/?action=view&current=MVI_0372.mp4
 
#17
Well... Im stuck again... the car needs to be inspected by the 30th... the neighbor where the car is located is complaining about my car shaking her house...

So some how... i have to write a decent tune right off the bat... without driving it to test it out... HAHAHAHA great.
 
#19
:stupid: Best bet to have it running decent right off the bat.

I'm running the basic 95 Cobra R tune (ZAO) in my car, with changes made for the 30lb injectors and MAF and other stuff for idle and start up. But I started out with the stock cobra maf and 24lb injectors. Once I got it to run decent like that I changed to the Pro-M maf and got it running decent on that. Then went to the 30's and been tweecing there since. All of this is talking about idle to mid rpm tuning until I got the 30lb inj. in it and felt safe with the maf curve I was working on.

I'm over 80% duty cycle on these injectors now so doing a WOT run with the 24's would have been not good.
 
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