TwEECer and Ford MAF sensors

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by ritc, Oct 27, 2006.


  1. ritc

    ritc New Member

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    Will a Tweecer tune for any size injectors/maf as long as you stick with a ford MAF sensor? Also would an 80mm MAF be a restriction in a boosted car? Would it be worth it to go with a 90mm?
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  2. Fett

    Fett New Member

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    I am a complete TwEECer newbie, but as far as I have been reading, there are already many MAFS tables saved in the TwEECer, you can simply load the correct one for the MAFS that you are using. If it isn't preloaded, you should be able to find most tables on the net. I know most of the C&L and ProM tables are already in there, you just need to chose which one you have. There is also a bunch of Ford tables, such as the Lightning MAFs.

    If I am not mistaken, the 01 Lightning is a 90mm, and the table is already loaded. So if you can get a Lightning MAFS, you can just load the correct table and you should be good to go.

    I am sure some of the more experienced TwEECer guys will chime in with more/better info. I am a complete newbie when it comes to tuning.
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  3. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    ^^^^Well done Fett!!

    Not sure you qualify as a noob anymore :nice:


    I am not sure what advice to give on how to select an appropriate size MAF, but bigger does seem to be better. I haven't even heard of any downsides to oversize MAF's, except maybe cost.

    The 90mm LMAF can be had for 80 bills.
    http://www.buyfordracing.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=504
    You will need a flange adapter and a conversion plug.
    However, the LMAF is supposedly one of the best MAF tubes we can get.


    The injector and maf settings in the EEC are 2 separate settings. With the tweecer you can use any maf/injector parts combo, as long as you tell the eec what you are using.


    The tweecer is a blast
    good luck

    jason
    #3
  4. stang&2Birds

    stang&2Birds Founding Member

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    For boosted, you'd want the 90mm. You can use any MAF/Injector combo - BUT...

    Different MAFs have different transfer curves. A MAF will measure "x flow" at 4.7v. That "x flow" roughly corresponds to "y HP". So, a stock Ford MAF will support up to ~300 HP. AN MAF will support more HP. But, you loose some resolution at low air flows (idle).

    If you go to the "42 ADJUSTED" "Fox" MAF, by *definition*, the output of the MAF is ~45% that of the stock MAF. At low flows you then loose a LOT of resolution (less than half).

    The 96+ MAFs have a different transfer curve. So, they are more accurate at low flows (for idle and emissions). But, their curve is less accurate towards the top of the curve.

    Now, it gets more interesting. The LMAF is BY FAR, the most accurate Ford-style MAF you can get. The *curve* being less accurate in the top is MINOR compared to how ACCURATE THE MAF MEASURES THE *REAL FLOW*!

    Also, you have the issue of how accurate any MAF is to the base-line. This isn't an issue if you get the MAF flow-tested. However, EVERY MAF will vary in accuracy over temperature, pressure, and actual air flow patterns (varies because the air filter's restrictions vary over time).

    So, even if you got some MEGA-POS C&L flow tested - BFD! IMHO, it would STILL be a worthless POS because of how inaccurate it is over varying conditions.

    Go with an LMAF, or the NEW-style PMAS MAFs. The LMAF is the best design and will vary less over different conditions. But, with the PMAS, you get the flow-sheet. Still, for ~?$125? you can get your MAF flow tested (at least PMAS / ProM used to do that).

    If you have a Tweecer and MANY hours to spend, you can fine tune your MAF curve for your actual SETUP in YOUR car.

    That may have been a little more detail/in depth than you wanted.
    Summary, GET THE LMAF!! :)
    #4
  5. zrchobbies

    zrchobbies New Member

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    New to efi just purchased the tweecer so stumbling across this thread helps. May sound stupid but LMAF?
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  6. Daggar

    Daggar New Member

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    Over and over, on the TwEECer forums, I see folks who are complaining about the Lightning meters maxing out @ X CFM. This is mostly on blown applications.

    What are your thoughts on that?


    --thread moved to tuning--
    #6
  7. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    Lightning Mass Air Flow meter.

    There was a 80mm and a 90mm used on the Lightning.
    #7
  8. stang&2Birds

    stang&2Birds Founding Member

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    I'm not sure of your exact question. I stay away from getting involved in SC/Turbo tuning for *many* reasons.

    My *guess* is that you're asking about the fact that Super Chargers take a LOT of HP to turn. And, there's no easy way to determine that amount. So, people look at the dyno results and come up with some semi-bogus estimate of *flywheel* HP. Then, they say "heck, the SC takes only 1 HP to turn ;)" and they wonder why they max'ed out their MAF/Injectors when their RWHP is still 100-+ HP below their other bogus estimated max for the MAF/injectors.

    Putting blowers on cars gets very involved. The VE (Vol Eff) changes. The air flow may not be accurately measured into the MAF. The air temps and the rate at which they change are not really supported. As the rest of the drive-train is pushed to it's max, the loss in HP increases. So, there could be even more HP at the flywheel then they may have estimated.


    As the blower pushes more air at higher rpms, the HP required to turn the blower increases greatly. Also, as the blower pushes more air at higher air temps, the HP required to turn the blower increases greatly. But, there's no easy way to get a HP estimate since the VE is also changing.

    With a 90mm MAF, and very good plumbing, people can get a *rough* estimate of how much HP, in *total*, the engine makes. Then, if they put it on an *engine dyno*, they can get a *rough* estimate of the blower loss.

    To add to the problem, flew people use a Mustang-style dyno. IMHO, tuning a blower on a non Mustang-style dyno is a first-pass at BEST! Unless people fatten up the curve and lower the timing, they can get problems.

    I've read about how people with blowers have had "much" different tunes on the different dyno types, with the Mustang-style being the closest to real-world driving and track conditions. But, people with blowers like to brag about their HP, so they like the HP figures from the other dynos. And, the same is true for tuners - they get business by selling high HP mods. Why use a Mustang-style dyno and have your tune with the same exact mods show 5-15% less?
    #8
  9. Daggar

    Daggar New Member

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    Yeah.. I don't really care much what the final dyno numbers are. If I want a set of those then I could just run down to Bob's Dyno and do a pull just for bragging rights...

    What I'm more concerned with is trying to use a Lightning MAF on my Kenne Bell combo. It would be pulling air "IN" like it would on an N/A combo, but I've heard from other places that the LMAF will often peg before you reach the potential of a 2.2L twin screw and a good stroker combo.

    I've got a brand new LMAF sitting out in the garage and with the intention of using it on this combo until talking with folks who ran into trouble with these meters an high HP applications. The suggested fixes so far have been:

    MAF extender
    The Big Mouth meter
    PMAS meter

    Would you happen to know... At what CFM does the LMAF peg?
    #9

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