Why 4.6?

Discussion in '2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by svtash, Jul 8, 2005.


  1. MSP

    MSP Guest


    Its all good jfischer!! The comment was not based towards you per say.. But to the theory of V6 hating.. But it is a damn shame that for whatever reason, be it a V6 or a GT, Ford always seems to undercut their cars somehow.. Like the GT having a tough time keeping up with Z28's and Vettes.. Or the V6 MPG, being not much better than the GT.. Which in some cases is why some might choose the V6, is for that very reason.. Only to find out its not all that true..

    Can anyone answer why Ford does this? Why not make the cars performance based on the competition, and not just better than the previous years model.. Its like there is an un-written agreement which states, "You can make the Mustangs fast, just not fast enough".. Or, "You can give the V6 good gas MPG, but it must not be better than a Honda.. Better keep it just as lousy as the GT".. We dont want Americans buying American cars, we want them to buy the Honda's and Toyota's.. We cant let American people think they can get good gas MPG with these cars, or else we cant charge Japan all that money on import fees, because Americans will have no need to buy them.. LOL!!

    You know in the end, as crooked as this world is, the truth lies somewhere inside the above paragraph... LOL!!
    #61
  2. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton New Member

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    none of that makes sense at all.

    A GT should not be keeping up with a Vette costing twice as much, so its pointless to compare. The Fbody's also cost more so again its only a lose argument at best.

    And if you look back thru history the Trans Am and Z28 have always had the performance edge over the equivelent Mustang. It was oinly ever the GT350/500 or Boss Stangs that where fatser.

    As for the V6 issue, well its been covered before.

    Ford has a perfectly good 230bhp 3.0 V6 of modern design found in many non US cars. But it isn't found in the Stang for 2 reasons:

    1. Amercan's as a rule like big grunty motors - hence the popularity of the V8. Small revvy V6's require high rpms and usually lack bottom end grunt. This is typical of Japanses motors as found in Nissans (350z), Honda's and such. So Ford kept the old school grunty V6 for the Mustang. Forget PEAK bhp and look at how much torque it produces accross the WHOLE of therev range compared to more modern V6's.

    2. This is probably even more important. The modular V8 engine is not the best out there and really doesn't produce that much power for its capacity, along with being very BIG and heavier than a baby elephant. Ford ultilised the 4.6 3v unit as its cheaper than a DOHC to produce and weighs less, but still leaves the 5.4 for future models. But in stock LEGAL trim it only produces 300bhp which in specific output terms is pretty poor.

    A lightweight 3.0 V6 with 230bhp (probably more if fitted to a performance car, 250bhp+ is probably realistic and still remain LEGAL as a production unit). Such an engine would have as good or better power to weight ratio over the 4.6 also better handling due to less weight and better weight distribution.

    All this would mean a base model V6 that would rival the V8 for performance - this would of course be a no no. :nono:

    If Ford can produce a better V8 then you will also see better V6 models. But until that time the V6 must be overshadowed by the V8.

    To highlight this even further, a full production variant (meaning legal meeting all emmsions and reliability standards) the 3.0 V6 with twin turbo's will produce 425bhp. A substantial amount more than a stock 03/4 Cobra.
    #62
  3. jfischer

    jfischer New Member

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    The F-bodies were very competitive pricewise with the Mustang GT. My fully-loaded 2002 Z28 stickered at $27,000 - you can bump up a loaded 2005 GT close to $30,000 today.

    Back in the day when the Camaro and the Stang sold side by side, there was very little difference in price between the two.
    #63
  4. tb9050lx

    tb9050lx Member

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    but the jag ahs an aj v8 and is not related to the modular mtr besides it is a 4.0 or 4.2 and the 400 horse one is super charged
    #64
  5. 351CJ

    351CJ New Member

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    The 4.0L V6's roots go all the way back to the 1960s as a 2.4L pushrod V6. The design had large enough bore spacing so the engine grew in capacity several times until it reached the 4.0L capacity and had OHC heads added in the late 1990s (Don't remember exactly but it was around 1998). So the present 4.0L SOHC V6 has been around for 7 years or so.

    Reportedly the 4.0L V6 will stick around for several more years and will get a HP and mileage boost for the 2007 model year.

    Ford has chosen to dump a LOT of $$ into hybrid development + fuel cell and hydrogen research rather than spend a lot to improve it's current engines or develop new conventional engines (i.e. Hurricane cancillation). What $$ have been available for conventional engine development have gone into 4 cyl engines, the Cyclone V6 and the Mod Motor 3V heads and VVT.
    #65
  6. 351CJ

    351CJ New Member

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    You are selling the latest 4.6L 3V Mod Motor short.

    It has MANY improvements over earlier Mod Motors, not the least of which is its very stiff aluminum block that borrowed some stiffining technology from your beloved AJ-V8.

    The 3V Mod Motor as used in the Mustang GT is the smallest Mod Motor to date (in physical size) and the lighest. At 460 lb it weights only 19 lb more than your beloved AJ V8. It also puts out more torque than the 4.2L, N/A AJ V8 on 87 octance, not the expensive 91 octane that the AJ V8's are designed to run on.

    If the 3V 4.6 was changed to run optimally on 91 octane, it would put out close to 320 HP which is 69.6 HP / L, essentually the same as the 69.5 HP / L that the 4.2L AJ V8 puts out AND it would have a lot more torque than the 4.2 AJ V8 all while being a lot lower cost to manufacture.
    #66
  7. sawman70

    sawman70 New Member

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    My point was only displacement, they are small and make decent power, that was my only point, period.
    #67
  8. topless beach

    topless beach New Member

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    How about a 4 cylinder stang? The old SVO's are still desirable aren't they?

    Why not slot a tricked out 4 cylinder stang w/ about 250 hp above the 6 and below the V-8? You could probably get the weight balance closer to 50/50 and focus on the car's handling.

    Just wanted to liven up the 6 vs 8 argument.
    #68
  9. sawman70

    sawman70 New Member

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    The sound of the V8 is what has made it so desireable as well as offering more low end. Sure a 4 or six could match performance but then it is just another ricer.

    I vote for preserving the sound and grunt of the V8 no matter what cubes.

    Small V8 >>>>>>>>>>>> Big V6 >>>>>>>>>>> 4banger
    #69
  10. MSP

    MSP Guest


    2005 Mustang V6 Sound With XPIPE Dual Exhaust

    Windows Closed

    http://www.troop452.com/venture/mspsduals3.MP3


    Windows Open

    http://www.troop452.com/venture/mspsduals.MP3

    Idle @ Complete stop

    http://www.troop452.com/venture/mspsduals2.MP3

    This is the car

    [​IMG]


    Does this sound like a ricer?
    #70
  11. jakoye

    jakoye New Member

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    #71
  12. MSP

    MSP Guest


    LOL!! Thanks Playa!! There's plenty of room for one more convert!! We will have fun man... Anyways, thats what its all about anyway.. Whether its a stone cold GT or a somewhat factory imposed mild mannered V6, you cant avoid the fun part no matter which one you buy! :nice:

    With the V6, it just take alittle more effort.. The V6 is corked when it leaves the factory.. With alittle patience and elbow grease, you could have a really fun car, that wont cower to any GT!..
    #72
  13. sawman70

    sawman70 New Member

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    Your kidding right... :rlaugh:

    Sounds like my moms Sable if the exhaust had a hole.

    Topless Beach, you have a knack for getting the dellusional to come out and play.
    #73
  14. MSP

    MSP Guest


    LOL!! You know sawman70, with 455RWHP and 483RWTQ, I find myself in a completely submissive position against your opinion.. I just cant find a way to disrespect such a wonderful Cobra, so I will accept the overbearring opinion as it stands..

    Must be nice having all that proven HP and TQ to help persuade your opinions on others.. I just dont have it in me to challenge you at his point in time! I find myself one of your fans!! Great job! :nice:

    Just to add, my choice at the time was to buy a V6.. At that time, I didnt even know of a website to make friends and discuss Mustang HP with.. As a man, it is completely intolerable to be disrespected by someone like this.. Sawman70 you may be responsible for my future purchase of the 2007 Cobra.. I have pondered it for quite sometime.. But after living life with just a V6, and knowing I can certainly afford a new 2007 Cobra, your insult may have pushed me over the edge in that regard.. LOL!! Call it a huge ego, or just pride.. This V6 is actually my first involvment with Mustangs and V6's.. All of my other Mustangs were V8's.. @ 35 years old, I thought I was mature enough to just own the V6.. But I guess I am not.. LOL! I'll PM you when I do get the 2007 Cobra.. Its now official, and this is my new path.. Thanks man!!
    #74
  15. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    Not to knock you. But mature enough to own a V6? Doesn't that come when you are too old to drive fast? :D
    #75
  16. MSP

    MSP Guest


    LOL!! Exactly! I still got a need for speed in these old bones!
    #76
  17. Rootus

    Rootus Officially Addicted

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    Making your next car decision based on trying to impress Internet teenagers is a big mistake. Turn off the computer and breathe some oxygen for awhile...
    #77
  18. MSP

    MSP Guest


    LOL!! :nice: Sometimes you get swept up in the moment!! LOL!! Sanity prevails!

    I have had this thought in mind for quite some time anyway.. Actually, when I bought my V6, I was stuck between 3 cars.. I initially went down to get the GT.. I was introduced to the V6.. I test drove the Red GT, but had my eye on the Roush Mustang.. At the time, I was totally against paying $36,000 bucks for the Roush, based on my old Saleen Mustang Experience.. That Experience dictates, that at the time, Saleens were viewd as an LX Mustang with an Option package worth about $1500 bucks.. Thats the game the Dealers try to play..

    When I traded in my 1988 Saleen Mustang (Black-#635), for my 93 Cobra, the Ford Dealer even tried to play this game.. They didnt want to give up any respect to the Saleen, insisting its just another Mustang.. "Bastards"..

    At any rate, I am intent on fininshing up my original plan for the V6 by putting on my Blower.. But the 2007 Cobra, is definatley going to happen.. The only thing I can see as a problem is the initial launch of the car, will be filled with overcharging.. It actually may take 1 yr before the cars are priced accordingly which is around $40K..


    But your right, you sometimes forget that this is the internet and things in the mirror may be closer than they appear.. LOL!! Meaning there is alot of BS that goes on in the forums! LOL!!
    #78
  19. sawman70

    sawman70 New Member

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    Nothing wrong with the V6 if your perception of it is realistic.

    My "lawnmower" comment in my sig is not a negative comment towards V6'ers, I do not judge you or your car nor do I hold a position where I should. I just think it is a waiste of money to mod it and see more use in modding my mower (quicker cut times?? :shrug: ). I have stated this before and was not trying to belittle you, although looking back, it was slightly harsh. But when the horsepower bug bites and you quote me, I will take that as a compliment. If you are patronizing me, that is cool too.

    ENJOY!!
    #79

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