1986 Mustang 5.0 Running Problems

verbryck

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Aug 17, 2017
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I am new to this forum and to Fords in general. I inherited a 1954 Ford Ranch wagon, I believe it has a 1986 Mustang 5.0 HO motor . previous to my ownership my dad put a battery in backwards. this has caused a whole bunch of problems. Can did not run and after I installed a new electronic ignition module I got it to run but not well. I have cleaned the Idle vale checked the operation of the EGR. I also thought maybe the pip was bad so I installed a new distributor. When I timed the car afterwards I can not get it to run at 10 BTC but it will run at TDC does this mean the computer is not advancing timing? I have pulled the codes which were 67 81 82 85 and 15. I read this thread about codes
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/having-trouble-pulling-codes.863900/
It looks like 67 means I might not be getting more engine codes but I can not find a neutral safety switch on the car. If I can find the appropriate connector can I fool the computer with a jumper?
The car will run and start but surges at idle sometimes enough to stall it also does not preform well. I can't find any wring faults but does not mean this is not one.
Sooo... The fact that I can pull any codes means the computer is OK? I realize that this is not a mustang but the engine is and I really need some help to get on the right track, the car already went to two different mechanics before I looked at it and got it running. No one is very interested in working a Frankenstein so I am left to try and get it going. I am in southern CA if any one knows of a shop that could help otherwise I am pretty handy. If there is a better place post I would much appreciate being directed there . When ever I look on google this forum seems the most helpful.
Thanks for any help, George
 
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first I will move this to the tech threads where you can get some advice but I will say recheck that distributor setting, sounds like your off,
And welcome to stangnet, the most helpful place on earth
maybe
probably
likely not
pretty good
unless you listen to me

oh, what computer does it have?
mass air or speed density?
 
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Thanks for moving it to a more appropriate forum . I have checked and installed the distributor 3 times. Once I move from tdc to 10 deegres the car dies. I replaced the distributor because I was having problems it did not create a new one the running is the same. I thought since the TFI was bad maybe the pip was also thus I changed it out. I did not check the timing before I replaced the distributor but when I put the new one in I did that is when I found that it would not run at 10 btc. According to my father it ran like a top before this battery mishap but he is having memory problems so... Still it seems unlikely that it would create a mechanical problem. Many thanks, George
 
It has a speed density pcm. I just took it out and took it apart and found that pin in the lower left corner has a break in trace on the back side of the circuit board. In addition capacitor c6 is no good. These are surface mount components and do not have any values on them. Any chance someone may know this value? I think but am not sure this is pin one. I could not yet find a pin out of for the 86 computer. Tomorrow I will check the wire color and see if that can shed some light for me . In the mean time if it is pin one , I think it would be 12v power all the time. I can fix the trace easily enough but the capacitor may be a little more difficult but it could be easily bypassed , good ides or not ? I could not find a schematic for the PCM is one available? I can get a new computer but if the problem is not identified it may just burn up the new one as well. thanks, George
 
The current computer is E8SF-12A650-AA1A large letters 8KJ, not sure if this is mustang computer as when I searched it it came back to an ebay ad for 89 crown vic. What do I need to know about sourcing a new computer? This car has a AOD trans. Pretty sure it is a 86 musrtang 5.0 as it has S heads and roller cam. I had to find out for the new distributor. thanks again , George
 
Ok, you need to find out some info on the engine, wiring harness to help yourself get this sorted out. I'm fairly curtain crown vics did not come with ho engines, they are lower compression and have a different firing order. Wbat firing order are you using?
Was this setup sorted out and running good at one time?
Is there a part number tag on the harness near the computer?
 
Agreed crown vic no HO but either this has HO stuff added or its a mustang 5.0 that was running the computer listed. Yes the car ran fine previous to battery being installed backwards. No tags I could find on the harness, no calibration stickers on the valve covers. I determined it has S heads visual inspection could see the S. I determined it has a roller cam took out push rod 6.25 inches in length. So after much deliberation internet searching seems like it is a pre 87 but not a flat tappet cam, 1986 or ? It has the HO firing order as well. Thanks, George
 
Ok fixed trace no more code 15 but now have 23, 29, 67, 81, 82, 85 . What would these codes mean with my vintage of engine? Is there a sure fire way of testing the computer overall . I feel like given the circumstances it could be the problem. Also If I want to buy a new computer can I just get an 85-86 speed density computer or should I try and find the same model I have now? Seems like it was either reprogrammed or I don.t know what. Only references I could find were to Lincoln crown vic and truck. Since in theory no HO in those cars shouldn't work wrong firing order etc... But it was running Thanks George
 
Code 23 - Throttle sensor out of range or throttle set too high - TPS needs to be reset to below 1.2 volts at idle. Keep in mind that when you turn the idle screw to set the idle speed, you change the TPS setting.


You'll need a Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job.

Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

Always use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage.

Do the test with the ignition switch in the Run position without the engine running.

Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.

When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks. Set it at .6.v-.9 v.

1. Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

2. When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

If setting the TPS doesn’t fix the problem, then you may have wiring problems.
With the power off, measure the resistance between the black/white wire and battery ground. You should see less than 2 ohms. Check the same black /white wire on the TPS and MAP/Baro sensor. More than 1 ohm there and the wire is probably broken in the harness between the engine and the computer. The 10 pin connectors pass the black/white wire back to the computer, and can cause problems.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
68512.jpg




Code 29 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) is an electronic sender mounted on the speedo pickup gear on the trans. It works the cruse control for both 5 speed and auto trans cars. The VSS is used to tell the computer to speed up the idle as you slow to a stop. This helps keep the engine from stalling when you slow down for a stop sign or stop light.
Check to see if the electrical connector is plugged into it. Clean the connector & contacts with non flammable brake parts cleaner prior to replacing the sensor, as that may fix the problem. The sensor cost is under $30 and it is easy to replace.



Code 67
Revised 18-Mar-2017 to include warning about the necessity of having a 5 speed O2 Sensor wiring harness when bypassing the wiring for test purposes

Cause of problem:
Clutch not depressed (5 speed) or car not in neutral (5 speed and auto) or not in park (auto) or A/C in On position when codes where dumped. Possible neutral safety switch or wiring problem. This code will prevent you from running the Key On Engine On tests.

External evidence from other sources claims that a code 67 can cause an idle surge condition. Do try to find and fix any issues with the switch and wiring if you get a code 67.

What the NSS (Neutral Safety Switch) does:
5 speed transmission: It has no connection with the starter, and the engine can be cranked without it being connected.
Auto transmission: It is the safety interlock that prevents the starter from cranking the engine with the transmission in gear.
What it does for both 5 speed and auto transmission cars:
The computer wants to make sure the A/C is off due to the added load on the engine for the engine running computer diagnostic tests. It also checks to see that the transmission is in Neutral (5 speed and auto transmission) and the clutch depressed (T5, T56, Tremec 3550 & TKO)). This prevents the diagnostics from being run when the car is driven. Key On Engine Running test mode takes the throttle control away from the driver for several tests. This could prove hazardous if the computer was jumpered into test mode and then driven.

The following is for 5 speed cars only. Do not do this unless you are sure that you have a 5 speed O2 Sensor harness!!!! Smoke, sparks and expensive pain in the wallet may ensue if you don’t.
The NSS code 67 can be bypassed for testing. You will need to temporarily ground computer pin 30 to the chassis. Computer pin 30 uses a Lt blue/yellow wire. Remove the passenger side kick panel and then remove the plastic cover from the computer wiring connector. Use a safety pin to probe the connector from the rear. Jumper the safety pin to the ground near the computer.
Be sure to remove the jumper BEFORE attempting to drive the car!!!

a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316




Code 81 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM2. The solenoid valve located on the back side of the passenger side wheel well is not functional. Possible bad wiring, bad connections, missing or defective solenoid valve. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Lt Green/Black wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve.

With the with the ignition on, look for 12 volts on the red wire on the solenoid connector. No 12 volts and you have wiring problems.

With the engine running, stick a safety pin in the LT Green/Black wire for the solenoid valve & ground it. That should turn the solenoid on and cause air to flow out the port that goes to the pipe connected to the cats. If it doesn't, the valve is bad. If it does cause the airflow to switch, the computer or wiring going to the computer is not signaling the solenoid valve to open.

Putting the computer into self test mode will cause the solenoid valve to toggle. If you listen carefully, you may hear it change states.




Code 82 – Secondary Air Injection Diverter Solenoid failure AM1. Possible bad wiring, bad connections, missing or defective solenoid valve. Check the solenoid valve for +12 volts at the Red wire and look for the Red/White wire to switch from +12 volts to 1 volt or less. The computer controls the valve by providing a ground path on the Red/White wire for the solenoid valve

With the engine running, stick a safety pin in the Red/White wire for the solenoid valve & ground it. That should turn the solenoid on and cause air to flow out the port that goes to the pipe connected to the heads. If it doesn't, the valve is bad. If it does cause the airflow to switch, the computer or wiring going to the computer is not signaling the solenoid valve to open.

Both 81 & 82 codes usually mean that some uneducated person removed the solenoid control valves for the Thermactor Air system in an attempt to make the car faster. It doesn't work that way: no working control valves can cause the cat converters to choke and clog. If you do not have cat converters on the car, you can ignore the 81 & 82 codes.
 
Ok fixed trace no more code 15 but now have 23, 29, 67, 81, 82, 85 . What would these codes mean with my vintage of engine? Is there a sure fire way of testing the computer overall . I feel like given the circumstances it could be the problem. Also If I want to buy a new computer can I just get an 85-86 speed density computer or should I try and find the same model I have now? Seems like it was either reprogrammed or I don.t know what. Only references I could find were to Lincoln crown vic and truck. Since in theory no HO in those cars shouldn't work wrong firing order etc... But it was running Thanks George
 
Thanks for the detailed reply I have been out of town for a few days. Here is what I have found TPS is set to .99 volts. I could not find either the VSS or NSS on the car does it need these to run ? It also does not appear to have a barometric sensor, does it need one? The car does not have cats so i will just ignore the 81 82 codes. What is code 85 for? I think that somewhere either the computer or the harness has a fault, possibly both. There are no fuses or fuse box on this car , I am not sure about fusible links are they part of the harness? If they are how do you locate them? I think the best thing would be to replace all the harness and connectors computer sensors etc.. and just start fresh. It seems it would be a lot less work and then I would know what I have. If I choose to do this what years harnesses computer would be best ? I have many pick your part locations near me and it looks like it would only cost 200-400 dollars to just get new stuff. Regards, George
 
A lot of these answers, unfortunately, depend on the parts used in this conversion. Need to identif various wiring first.

For instance, is the wiring sourced from a 5-Spd car or AOD? Is it really a CV ECU? Is the o2 sensor harness pinned correctly? Is it a 5-wire harness or a 7 wire harness on the engine side of the o2 harness connection?

This may be less of a mechanical issue and more of wiring mismatch
 
OK I understand it all worked perfect prior to the battery being installed backwards. I can check the 02 harness . As far as the PCM goes all I know is what I have posted it all comes back to Lincoln, CV or truck for the number ( EEC-IV SFI SD3 E8SF12A650-AA1A 8KJ )from internet search. What I know is it is a roller cam engine with S heads i.e e6 both verfified by visual inspection. So from what I can see on the internet makes it from a 1986 Mustang only year with E6 head and roller cam according to the internet. It says mustang 5.0 HO on the intake manifold, has orange 19 lb injectors and the HO firing order. It was installed without any fuses in fact 1954 Ford has no fuses whatsoever. I see fusible links in the wiring diagram but where would they be ? Much of the ancillary equipment was left off when the conversion was preformed. It might not be right to assume anything but it was working, ran great. I assume it has some wiring or computer fault now so I would like to replace the wiring and computer but with what? 1987-88 harness ? 1986 harness ? I am not to concerned with making more HP just in having it run good. I will take pictures of all the connectors I can find on the harness is there a way to tell from visual inspection what the harness is out of originally? Many Thanks ,George
 
Fusible links are smaller gauge wires (higher numerically) that fail the larger gauge wire they are connected to when there is a problem. On Fords a few are usually connected to the starter relay itself to protect the power distribution circuits. In my experience.
 
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