Basic n2o tuning

blksn955.o

Founding Member
Mar 15, 2002
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st.louis mo 314
I am not going to claim I know it all or am a expert. Throwing out there what I have come across learning. Please feel free to add any comment or added info.

n2o is a product that carrys more air than the outside atmosph. This added air is held in liquid form under pres. in a bottle/tank at around 900-1000psi (for best results). When it is released into the intake track of an engine it adds more air due to it carrying more air and you need to add more fuel to this mix for that reason. Due to the colder temp produced the intake charge temp is gen. less and that is why you can gen. run more timing per hp than with boost and is also better suited for higher compression than boost.


1. non-tweecer spark-
Base timing at 10, atleast do a good tune up with plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. If you are running over a 100 shot it would be a wise and cheap idea to go with a spark plug 1 range colder than the head recomends (incase aftermarket are used) stock or for N/A use, I have had good results with NGK and Autolite plugs. An aftermarket ign. box is a good idea. It is fairly common to gap plugs at around 35, I would say with 100+ or if you think it is blowing out spark at higher rpm on a lower shot. A window switch is going to save your butt if you over rev or mis-shift...if you do ANYTHING get a window switch.

1.2 tweecer spark-
After asking around several people suggested to run a slower rate of advance to help tire shock and driveline shock. It would probably be a good thing to leave the stock adv. rate alone and play with it after running some base line runs. From your N/A timing that you know you do not ping remove 2* for every 50hp of n2o. You can play with this if you want to ride the edge but to be safe from the outset go with the 2* rule. If you are running the stock T5 and you want alittle "safty" keep the shift retard at the stock setting, if you do change it make sure its not more than your n2o 2* rule retard...ie make sure its not more than your total timing while WOT.

2. non-tweecer fuel-
Many have run a 100-125hp shot on a stock pump, However, for the price it is always a good idea to get a bigger pump for when the extra demand is there. I ran a 125 shot on the stock pump with no issues, but when I got a chance I went to a 190lph intake pump. An inline pump will also work well. If your running a dry kit it is not a bad idea to look into bigger inj.

2.2 tweecer fuel-
Having a good MAFtransfer and inj. values in a correct form to get comanded should be had before anything else. Up to 150-175hp levels the gen. concenses is to aim for a 11.5-11.8:1 A/F ratio. From what I have been told by people who R&D for n2o companies tuning above 175hp is complicated. I never plan to go more than that so I didnt ask specifics...anyone else want to add?

n2o is activated at WOT were really there is only Spark and fuel to change, KAMFR is out the window as its in a diff. loop state and o2's are not in the equation. That is why the first thing is to make 100% sure your commanded is varified as such and your settings are accurate to get that commanded. DO NOT GUESS here.

Do not drill jets to make them larger.

Nozzles on the other hand can in alot of cases have smaller I.D. than a given jet...this is why some people will not see any gain from moving up a jet. For example Joe runs 12.82 on a 150 shot but on a 175 shot runs a 12.79 while with a 125 shot ran a 13.10. The nozzle is not big enough to get the best results. DO NOT TAKE THIS AS "I can just run with no jets". People have drilled the nozzle alittle bigger to get the most out of the 175 shot.

From what I have been told on an avg. setup at 150-200hp will run a higher chance/level of fuel drop off with a wet kit as the fuel just gets to heavy and volocity needs to be watched to make sure it does not get a chance to "fall off". You can run moded dry kits with larger inj., direct port kits, and plate style kits that put a plate between the upper and lower intake (the upper is were the mix has to keep together while making wierd turns). Its a bit more advanced than the avg. basic setups so I would let others with first hand exp. go there.

gen. safty-
n2o is a liquid under pres. in the bottle, It goes threw the phase change as it hits the atmosph. The phase change results in a drastic temp change down to -125*. Be very carefull removing a line from the bottle, if any n2o is still in the line it will freeze the skin and be alittle painfull. With bottle warmers and blankets I would not recomend heating up a bottle with a blow torch :nono: . N2o will not blow up in a big fireball...it would probably blow out a fire before starting one. The bottle is under ALOT of pres. and will put out ALOT of force though, I remember pics of a garage a several years ago were the back of the car blew apart and it cracked the garage's slab :eek: ...so yeah dont try and blow one up.
 
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I am not going to claim I know it all or am a expert. Throwing out there what I have come across learning. Please feel free to add any comment or added info.

n2o is a product that carrys more air than the outside atmosph. This added air is held in liquid form under pres. in a bottle/tank at around 900-1000psi (for best results). When it is released into the intake track of an engine it adds more air due to it carrying more air and you need to add more fuel to this mix for that reason. Due to the colder temp produced the intake charge temp is gen. less and that is why you can gen. run more timing per hp than with boost and is also better suited for higher compression than boost.


1. non-tweecer spark-
Base timing at 10, atleast do a good tune up with plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. If you are running over a 100 shot it would be a wise and cheap idea to go with a spark plug 1 range colder than the head recomends (incase aftermarket are used) stock or for N/A use, I have had good results with NGK and Autolite plugs. An aftermarket ign. box is a good idea. It is fairly common to gap plugs at around 35, I would say with 100+ or if you think it is blowing out spark at higher rpm on a lower shot. A window switch is going to save your butt if you over rev or mis-shift...if you do ANYTHING get a window switch.

1.2 tweecer spark-
After asking around several people suggested to run a slower rate of advance to help tire shock and driveline shock. It would probably be a good thing to leave the stock adv. rate alone and play with it after running some base line runs. From your N/A timing that you know you do not ping remove 2* for every 50hp of n2o. You can play with this if you want to ride the edge but to be safe from the outset go with the 2* rule. If you are running the stock T5 and you want alittle "safty" keep the shift retard at the stock setting, if you do change it make sure its not more than your n2o 2* rule retard...ie make sure its not more than your total timing while WOT.

2. non-tweecer fuel-
Many have run a 100-125hp shot on a stock pump, However, for the price it is always a good idea to get a bigger pump for when the extra demand is there. I ran a 125 shot on the stock pump with no issues, but when I got a chance I went to a 190lph intake pump. An inline pump will also work well. If your running a dry kit it is not a bad idea to look into bigger inj.

2.2 tweecer fuel-
Having a good MAFtransfer and inj. values in a correct form to get comanded should be had before anything else. Up to 150-175hp levels the gen. concenses is to aim for a 11.5-11.8:1 A/F ratio. From what I have been told by people who R&D for n2o companies tuning above 175hp is complicated. I never plan to go more than that so I didnt ask specifics...anyone else want to add?

n2o is activated at WOT were really there is only Spark and fuel to change, KAMFR is out the window as its in a diff. loop state and o2's are not in the equation. That is why the first thing is to make 100% sure your commanded is varified as such and your settings are accurate to get that commanded. DO NOT GUESS here.

Do not drill jets to make them larger.

Nozzles on the other hand can in alot of cases have smaller I.D. than a given jet...this is why some people will not see any gain from moving up a jet. For example Joe runs 12.82 on a 150 shot but on a 175 shot runs a 12.79 while with a 125 shot ran a 13.10. The nozzle is not big enough to get the best results. DO NOT TAKE THIS AS "I can just run with no jets". People have drilled the nozzle alittle bigger to get the most out of the 175 shot.

From what I have been told on an avg. setup at 150-200hp will run a higher chance/level of fuel drop off with a wet kit as the fuel just gets to heavy and volocity needs to be watched to make sure it does not get a chance to "fall off". You can run moded dry kits with larger inj., direct port kits, and plate style kits that put a plate between the upper and lower intake (the upper is were the mix has to keep together while making wierd turns). Its a bit more advanced than the avg. basic setups so I would let others with first hand exp. go there.

gen. safty-
n2o is a liquid under pres. in the bottle, It goes threw the phase change as it hits the atmosph. The phase change results in a drastic temp change down to -125*. Be very carefull removing a line from the bottle, if any n2o is still in the line it will freeze the skin and be alittle painfull. With bottle warmers and blankets I would not recomend heating up a bottle with a blow torch :nono: . N2o will not blow up in a big fireball...it would probably blow out a fire before starting one. The bottle is under ALOT of pres. and will put out ALOT of force though, I remember pics of a garage a several years ago were the back of the car blew apart and it cracked the garage's slab :eek: ...so yeah dont try and blow one up.

Blacksn95, would you mind sharing your fuel and spark table for your nitrous tune?

Thanks
 
I had some major issues last year unrelated to the toy and really did not touch anything. The water heater blew, the fridge died right after that, then the heater went out early fall, we refied the house (great timing on that one, it just dragged on as we waited since rates were falling), the wife got into a small fender bender, then our TV decided to tell us we needed to replace it. Last year was not fun for extra/added bills.

I only drove the car a handfull of times and found bad lifters after dynoing it Aug 07 and 1 trac visit no power after 4-4,500rpm. I did not get around to replacing the lifters until this spring and just got it inspected and should have plates on it next week...then I am taking it to get the wideband bung welded on.

I am not touching any of the n2o details until I 100% know my A/F is correct. This damn thing is dragging on for YEARS now...I have a basic tune setup for n2o that should be safe once the A/F is confirmed.

I am targeting 11.5 A/F (starting at the richer end) and for timing tables I am using the stock advance and rate for now to help with the onset/building of power to not blow the tires off and removing 2* of timing for every 50hp of n2o just to be safe. I think this will be a VERY cautious base tune.

I have also made a tune with the same type of timing setup on my NA tune only with 2* of timing for every 50hp and still with 11.5 A/F. For example say my max timing is 32* and at full advance by 2,500rpm NA. I am now running 26* at full advance by 2,500rpm on 150hp jets. This should be a little more aggressive base tune.

Just remember that as far as the tables go you only really need to focus on say the top 3 or so rows. Since n2o is only working at WOT or at the higher load levels you dont need a lot of focus below that other than 100% sure the A/F and timing is were it needs to be.
 
Sorry but its long man. But need get it off the chest with a fellow 'stanger.

Hey man I know the feeling. This year was a little tough for me too. First the car wouldn't start. The MSD distributor went bad (PIP). I didn't have more than 1K miles on it but of course it was just over 12 months so it was out of warranty. Then the car was missing pretty badly and I could not figure out the problem for the life of me so I didn't drive the car for about 4-5 months plus I was doing home improvement projects. Then in April I was down for about 2 weeks because of kidney stones - man talk about pain. I couldn't eat, sleep, piss etc. They had to put a stent in me so that I could piss. Then I the lithrotripsty procedure done to break up the kidney stones. Needless to say I was not motivated after all that to do anything. Then in June our house was hit by lightning and we lost tvs, receivers, garage door opener, treadmill, computer components and on and on. So we've been slowly replacing those items. Because of all of this crap, I did not touch the nitrous since September 07 when all the BS began. Then I was reading one of the post on theh MSD tech forum and the poster was having the same issue as I was witht the hight rpm misfire so I finally tracked down what was causing the high rpm missfire - it was the damn distributor cap. It had corrosion build up on the contact points. So this week started messing with the nitrous tune again after about 1 year. As a result, I am far behind where I should be at this point and just wanted to get a little jump start.


Just a FYI: I am again going to start with a 50hp shot and work up. I am using the stock timing table (J4J1) - total timimg at 26* and commanding a 11.5:1 AFR from 3k rpm up in the upper 2 load in the fuel table. I know this is very conservative. I just wanted to see what you were running because you've been using N20 for awhile now. But based on what you are running your 150hp shot tune I probably can go a little more aggresive timing with the 50hp shot. Also should I be changing the upper 3 load rows for both timing and fuel or is the upper 2 loads ok?

What do you think?

And thanks for the info.
 
Ouch...kidney stones suck. I had one in April, May, and June this year last time before that was like 2002 and one time in the mid 90's. No friggan idea why so many in such a short time. The one in 02 they had to do what you had done...I feel your pain it SUCKS.

That was just an example timing number wise...my motor has 10.5 or so compression with an iron head so I do not think I will be be able to run much more than 32* timing NA...at least I am not expecting to.

With the crappy advance and fairly low timing max on our cars anyway you will prob. be ok with the stock timing up to 100-125 hp. When I ran a 125 shot I ran like -1* from stock. I did not ping at +4* NA. For a 50hp and running 26* it sould be very safe if nothing is wrong.

Of course all cars are not the same so if anything I would take what timing you can run safely without ping NA and subtract the needed amount from there for the n2o. I dont think you can ever give a hard and fast, set in stone timing number because who knows were the car pings.

The top 2 should be ok. I would log and make sure the load seen is above what is marked as the top 2 but it should be good to go.