Cranks OK, but No Start. No Injector Pulse...

LEAVNYA

Member
Sep 12, 2000
21
0
12
Memphis, TN
Hey guys,

my girlfriends 92 GT died on her last week and will crank but won't start. I've gone through the "Cranks OK, but No Start" checklist from jrichker. I have 12v at the red injector wire, but using a NOID light I don't get any light at all. I have 5V at the TPS with KO. New cap, rotor, TFI, and coil. Don't have a fuel pressure gauge, but I get a squirt of gas from the schrader valve when depressed.(if that matters). I had cadoe 67 yesterday, today just 11. From what I've read, all signs point to PIP. What do you guys suggest at this point? :shrug:

Thanks for any/all help fellas. :hail2:

-Matt
 
  • Sponsors (?)


The PIP is indeed suspect. Pull the SPOUT jumper out of the harness and see if it makes a difference. Keep in mind that PIP problems may be heat sensitive, and the symptoms may change as things cool off.

The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. A failing PIP sensor will often set code 14 in the computer. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it. Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a reman unit for about $50-$75 exchange
 
"The PIP is indeed suspect. Pull the SPOUT jumper out of the harness and see if it makes a difference. Keep in mind that PIP problems may be heat sensitive, and the symptoms may change as things cool off."

I pulled the spout out earlier with no change. The car is cool so I don't think the temperature change is going to come into play for me. (about 70 here today as well...)

Should I go ahead and pick up a Distributor while I'm out for lunch at this point?

Thanks for the quick reply!
 
"The PIP is indeed suspect. Pull the SPOUT jumper out of the harness and see if it makes a difference. Keep in mind that PIP problems may be heat sensitive, and the symptoms may change as things cool off."

I pulled the spout out earlier with no change. The car is cool so I don't think the temperature change is going to come into play for me. (about 70 here today as well...)

Should I go ahead and pick up a Distributor while I'm out for lunch at this point?

Thanks for the quick reply!
I would replace the distributor at this point.
 
The Distributor did the trick. (After running to 4 parts stores. NAPA had just closed 4 minutes before I got there. Went to Advanced Auto and got the Reman. Got home, installed TFI, hole was stripped, crap. Back to Advanced, I already purchased the last one they had, got my core back. Down to O'reilly's they don't have them in stock. Down to Autozone, they had it, got it back in, set the timing, and back on the road...)

Thanks so much, I owe you.

-Matt
 
Hello, and yet another newbie (61 years old a bleed Ford blue) looking for help. I am working on a 91 Mustang convert with 40,000 original miles. It is a customer car for me to help the owner with and I am a bit new to the world of fuel injection and modern cars. Here is an overview of the car. It ran 6 months ago but now has the cranks fine but no start problem. Car has a 347 stoker with BBK air intake, Mass air, and fuel pressure regulator. Headers, and I assume a bigger out put fuel pump and bigger injectors. After market fuel rails, and a stock distributor. Edelbrock upper and lower intake manifold. Beautiful red car with numerous other upgrades. The owner passed away and his wife wants to get it to run so she can sell it. I am just helping her and nothing more. I do this work for free most of the time.

Thought it would be easier than this and I have went through numerous posts and Jrichker is the man. So here is what I have done and researched so far.

1. Car cranks and has spark at both the coil and any spark plug wire.
2. Fuel pump is "running" and the BBK pressure regulator indicates 40 pounds of fuel pressure.
3. Tried the some "BTSO" (short for bolt that stuff on) approach. Not smart so..
4. New TFI module and rebuilt distributor.
5. Car has power on both sides of the coil
6. Car has power to the run and start wires that connect to the TFI module
7. Car has power to multiple (did not test all) injector harness connections.
8. Engine will start if fuel is squirted into the intake manifold via the vacuum connection for the fuel regulator.
9. Thought fuel pressure regulator may be the culprit, but now I doubt it.

I am curious about the TPS sensor. Can you tell me how to test it so to speak. It is said if it produces more than 3.7 volts then it shuts down the injector pulse? Which wire or side should have the voltage to measure. Do you leave it connected and probe into the wire at the connection point?

Rob
 
Failed TPS generates a code usually, or a TPS outside ideal range.

Have you tested the injector harness for power at the fuel injectors? Have you tested the injectors with a 9v battery? They should read around 14.4 ohms of resistance.

Finally have you unplugged and cleaned the 10-pin connectors (white and brown big connectors behind intake) and reconnect them tightly?


Sent from my big ass iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
 
@Robert Campbell
From one old guy (70) to another old guy...

The answers to all your no start questions are in the checklist below.

Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected 5.0 Mustangs model years 1986-1995

A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly.


Revised 15-Sep-2014 to add temporarily bypassing the MSD box if it is present.

All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector (small red/blue wire) from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch to the Run position. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.

No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD, Crane, or other ignition box if present - Bypass it and return to stock configuration if possible. Do this as a temporary measure to eliminate it as a possible problem source.
B.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed. See paragraph 5A – Using a noid light will tell if the PIP is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
C.) TFI module: use a test light to check the TFI module. Place one lead of the test light on the red/green wire on the ignition coil connector and the other lead on the dark green/yellow wire on the ignition coil connector. If the TFI is working properly, the test light will flash when the engine is cranked using the ignition switch.
D.) Coil
E.) No EEC or computer power - EEC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: EEC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
Both 86-93 and 94-95 models: No 12 volts with the ignition switch in the run position on the fuel injector red wires. The relay has failed or there is no power coming from the ignition switch. Make sure that there is 12 volts on the red/green wire on the coil before replacing the relay.
F.) No EEC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid. Look for a 20 gauge blue fuse link connected to 2 black/orange 14 gauge wires.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire on the ignition switch with it in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position at the ignition switch but not at the coil, then the fuse or fuse link is blown.
Note: fuses or fuse links blow for a reason. Don’t replace either a fuse or fuse link with one with a larger rating than stock. Doing so invites an electrical fire.
Ignition fuse links may be replaced with an inline fuse holder and 5 amp fuse for troubleshooting purposes.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp [fuse
H.) Missing or loose computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery.
In 86-90 model cars, it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire.
In 91-95 model cars it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/white wire.
You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness
I.) Computer. Don’t replace the computer just because you don’t understand how it works. Computers seldom fail, it usually is a sensor or wiring problem that causes the problems.
J.) Bad or missing secondary power ground. It is located between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
K.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red/blue wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

Wiring Diagrams:

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 94-95 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


AutoZone wiring diagrams: You can navigate to the diagrams yourself via Repair Info | AutoZone.com and select the car year, make, model and engine. That will enable you to bring up the wiring diagram for your particular car.

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability: [/b]
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 2-4 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.

attachment.php?attachmentid=68357&stc=1&d=1322348015.gif


If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) The PIP sensor in the distributor tells the computer when to fire the injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed.
A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector circuit to see if the injectors are firing. The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and try to start the engine: it will flash if the injector is firing.

I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
B.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
C.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
?temp_hash=3ef2497fff29a7a9daee955cf93e5805.jpg

The injector power pin is the VPWR pin in the black 10 pin connector.


D.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the EEC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
E.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.1.0 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB or improperly set base idle (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car. See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently. If you removed the distributor, there is a good probability that you installed it 180 degrees out of time.
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it, if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine.
 
@Robert Campbell
From one old guy (70) to another old guy...

The answers to all your no start questions are in the checklist below.

Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected 5.0 Mustangs model years 1986-1995

A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly.


Revised 15-Sep-2014 to add temporarily bypassing the MSD box if it is present.

All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector (small red/blue wire) from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch to the Run position. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.

No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD, Crane, or other ignition box if present - Bypass it and return to stock configuration if possible. Do this as a temporary measure to eliminate it as a possible problem source.
B.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed. See paragraph 5A – Using a noid light will tell if the PIP is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
C.) TFI module: use a test light to check the TFI module. Place one lead of the test light on the red/green wire on the ignition coil connector and the other lead on the dark green/yellow wire on the ignition coil connector. If the TFI is working properly, the test light will flash when the engine is cranked using the ignition switch.
D.) Coil
E.) No EEC or computer power - EEC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: EEC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
Both 86-93 and 94-95 models: No 12 volts with the ignition switch in the run position on the fuel injector red wires. The relay has failed or there is no power coming from the ignition switch. Make sure that there is 12 volts on the red/green wire on the coil before replacing the relay.
F.) No EEC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid. Look for a 20 gauge blue fuse link connected to 2 black/orange 14 gauge wires.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire on the ignition switch with it in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position at the ignition switch but not at the coil, then the fuse or fuse link is blown.
Note: fuses or fuse links blow for a reason. Don’t replace either a fuse or fuse link with one with a larger rating than stock. Doing so invites an electrical fire.
Ignition fuse links may be replaced with an inline fuse holder and 5 amp fuse for troubleshooting purposes.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp [fuse
H.) Missing or loose computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery.
In 86-90 model cars, it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire.
In 91-95 model cars it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/white wire.
You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness
I.) Computer. Don’t replace the computer just because you don’t understand how it works. Computers seldom fail, it usually is a sensor or wiring problem that causes the problems.
J.) Bad or missing secondary power ground. It is located between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
K.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red/blue wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

Wiring Diagrams:

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 94-95 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


AutoZone wiring diagrams: You can navigate to the diagrams yourself via Repair Info | AutoZone.com and select the car year, make, model and engine. That will enable you to bring up the wiring diagram for your particular car.

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability: [/b]
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 2-4 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.

attachment.php?attachmentid=68357&stc=1&d=1322348015.gif


If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) The PIP sensor in the distributor tells the computer when to fire the injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed.
A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector circuit to see if the injectors are firing. The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and try to start the engine: it will flash if the injector is firing.

I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
B.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
C.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
?temp_hash=3ef2497fff29a7a9daee955cf93e5805.jpg

The injector power pin is the VPWR pin in the black 10 pin connector.


D.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the EEC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
E.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.1.0 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB or improperly set base idle (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car. See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently. If you removed the distributor, there is a good probability that you installed it 180 degrees out of time.
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it, if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine.
Tried to run a KOEO but car would not respond to scan. I know in the above may contain the information I need , but it is a bit overwhelming for the novice. I think I have spark, I have power to the injectors, and I have fuel pressure. Based on that the only thing that I could obtain was a TPS providing to much voltage closed? Maybe I am missing something. I am sorry to torture someone who provides so much info. how do I test the TPS sensor?

Rob
 
Failed TPS generates a code usually, or a TPS outside ideal range.

Have you tested the injector harness for power at the fuel injectors? Have you tested the injectors with a 9v battery? They should read around 14.4 ohms of resistance.

Finally have you unplugged and cleaned the 10-pin connectors (white and brown big connectors behind intake) and reconnect them tightly?


Sent from my big ass iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
I have 12 volts to the injectors. Have not pulled the 10 pin connectors, but it seems I would not have 12 volts at the injectors if they were dirty?

Rob
 
Tried to run a KOEO but car would not respond to scan. I know in the above may contain the information I need , but it is a bit overwhelming for the novice. I think I have spark, I have power to the injectors, and I have fuel pressure. Based on that the only thing that I could obtain was a TPS providing to much voltage closed? Maybe I am missing something. I am sorry to torture someone who provides so much info. how do I test the TPS sensor?

Rob
That's why it is a checklist; it is a sequential process that eliminates the good and allows you to find the bad. This reduces the number of rabbits you have to chase to 1 or 2 instead of many rabbits, all of which are running off in different directions.

You start at the top and work your way down, one step at a time. Do not skip any steps, because the next step depends on the previous step working properly.

If you have multiple problems fix them one at a time, and TEST them again to make sure that particular problem is fixed.
 
That's why it is a checklist; it is a sequential process that eliminates the good and allows you to find the bad. This reduces the number of rabbits you have to chase to 1 or 2 instead of many rabbits, all of which are running off in different directions.

You start at the top and work your way down, one step at a time. Do not skip any steps, because the next step depends on the previous step working properly.

If you have multiple problems fix them one at a time, and TEST them again to make sure that particular problem is fixed.
J,
So I am down to the 10 pin connectors and the TPS. By having full spark from the coil and full spark at the plug wires coupled with 12 volts on either side of the coil and to the TFI run and start wire, I think the spark side of the equation is fine. I have 40 pounds of fuel pressure at the injector rails. Finally the engine starts and runs fine if primed directly into the intake manifold. I have 12 volts to the injector harness on one injector so I will try your injector pulse test or get a noid light. It seems I am down to power at all the injectors or the TPS sensor. I have a rebuilt dizzy so the PIP may or may not be working. Who knows, but the pulse test and TPS test should verify this final step in your process unless I am missing anything. I do not believe that all fuel injectors would fail at once.

Thanks for sticking with me on this and I will post the end of this issue for anyone else to use.

Rob
 
How long has this car been sitting? Is the fuel good? It's possible those injectors are clogged up, or seized or just defective overall.

Last time my car say 7 years without getting fired up, and I lost an injector to that stint.


IIRC, 3.7V for the TPS signifies Wide Open throttle to the EEC and the fuel trim is adjusted based on that feedback. Only time I've heard of it shutting down the injectors is if the throttle is depressed wide open during the cranking operation. This siginifies a flooded engine and "turns off" the injectors. During normal running, this shouldn't be an issue.

TPS is 3 wires. black is ground. One wire will be your VREF of 5 volts, the other will be the signal wire to the EEC. At closed throttle, voltage on this wire should be anywhere between 0.6v and 1.1v. If it is, then your TPS is fine and move on. Moving the throttle to WOT should put voltage somewhere around 4.x volts.

Have you pulled a spark plug out yet? What does it look like?

I'm leaning towards there being an issue with the injectors, especially if you are measuring the 12v pulses at the injector harness at each individual injector
 
How long has this car been sitting? Is the fuel good? It's possible those injectors are clogged up, or seized or just defective overall.

Last time my car say 7 years without getting fired up, and I lost an injector to that stint.


IIRC, 3.7V for the TPS signifies Wide Open throttle to the EEC and the fuel trim is adjusted based on that feedback. Only time I've heard of it shutting down the injectors is if the throttle is depressed wide open during the cranking operation. This siginifies a flooded engine and "turns off" the injectors. During normal running, this shouldn't be an issue.

TPS is 3 wires. black is ground. One wire will be your VREF of 5 volts, the other will be the signal wire to the EEC. At closed throttle, voltage on this wire should be anywhere between 0.6v and 1.1v. If it is, then your TPS is fine and move on. Moving the throttle to WOT should put voltage somewhere around 4.x volts.

Have you pulled a spark plug out yet? What does it look like?

I'm leaning towards there being an issue with the injectors, especially if you are measuring the 12v pulses at the injector harness at each individual injector

Thanks for the information. So today I measured the voltage on the red wire to the TPS at only 1.7 volts with a Fluke. The green wire measured 0.3 volts closed and 1.5 volts at WOT. The ohms of resistance TPS on the green wire decreased smoothly from closed to WOT, Again 12 volts measured on 3 of the injectors red wire with key on. Took apart the salt and pepper shakers and thoroughly cleaned them and applied dylectic grease to the terminals.

Car has not set that long. 40 pounds of fuel pressure with key on. I disassembled the BBK pressure regulator and there was just a tiny amount of white powder from water ethanol on the diaphragm. It only sat about 6 months. Gas smells fine and I captured a some in a quart jar form the feed line while the fuel regulator was off. It looks great. Full tank of gas.

Only 1.7 volts on the red wire to the TPS seems way low? What could cause that? Sprayed some gas in the vacuum fitting in the upper intake that supports the pressure regulator. It started right up and then died as it used it up.

Any more thoughts? THANKS for the help so far. My brother has a 92 Super Bird that we have hot rodded. His TPS red wire has around 5 volts. And it starts low on the green wire and gets to around 4.7 volts at WOT.

Rob
 
Last edited:
Only 1.7 volts on the red wire to the TPS seems way low? What could cause that? Sprayed some gas in the vacuum fitting in the upper intake that supports the pressure regulator. It started right up and then died as it used it up.

I'd start by checking VRef on some of the other various sensors such as the MAF and BAP sensor on the firewall. Do you have 5V at any of these sensors, or do they also show 1.7V?

My wiring book is home, otherwise I could suggest what connectors in the bay to open up and test at
 
Thanks for the information. So today I measured the voltage on the red wire to the TPS at only 1.7 volts with a Fluke. The green wire measured 0.3 volts closed and 1.5 volts at WOT. The ohms of resistance TPS on the green wire decreased smoothly from closed to WOT, Again 12 volts measured on 3 of the injectors red wire with key on. Took apart the salt and pepper shakers and thoroughly cleaned them and applied dylectic grease to the terminals.

Car has not set that long. 40 pounds of fuel pressure with key on. I disassembled the BBK pressure regulator and there was just a tiny amount of white powder from water ethanol on the diaphragm. It only sat about 6 months. Gas smells fine and I captured a some in a quart jar form the feed line while the fuel regulator was off. It looks great. Full tank of gas.

Only 1.7 volts on the red wire to the TPS seems way low? What could cause that? Sprayed some gas in the vacuum fitting in the upper intake that supports the pressure regulator. It started right up and then died as it used it up.

Any more thoughts? THANKS for the help so far. My brother has a 92 Super Bird that we have hot rodded. His TPS red wire has around 5 volts. And it starts low on the green wire and gets to around 4.7 volts at WOT.

Rob
Been there and chased that rabbit recently...

see http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/easy-fix-for-a-puzzing-problem.892621/ for an answer to your problem...
 
I'd start by checking VRef on some of the other various sensors such as the MAF and BAP sensor on the firewall. Do you have 5V at any of these sensors, or do they also show 1.7V?

My wiring book is home, otherwise I could suggest what connectors in the bay to open up and test at

It appears that the white 10 pin connector has the feeds to all the sensors that should measure 5 volts? If so would that be the good place to check?

Rob
 
Troubleshooting low or missing 5 volt Vref

All tests done with the ignition switch in the Run position but the engine is not running.

The orange/white wire supplies 5 volts reference (Vref) for the TPS, MAP/Baro and EGR sensors.

Engine Mounted sensors
fuel-injector-wiring-harness-sensors-for-a-5-0-mustang-gif.63347


The TPS and EGR get their 5 volt Vref through the engine mounted fuel injector harness & the 10 pin connectors.

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
salt-pepper-10-pin-connectors-65-jpg.68512


A bad connection or broken wire in the engine mounted fuel injection harness is not uncommon. Check the EGR sensor orange/white wire for good 5 volt Vref. If it is good there, the TPS has either a broken wire or bad connection.
Good 5 volt Vref at the ERG sensor, then you have a 10 pin salt & pepper connecter problem or a computer problem.

Check for 5 volt Vref on the orange/white wire at the firewall mounted MAP/Baro sensor. Good 5 volt Vref there, then the problem is in the 10 pin salt & pepper connectors or in the engine mounted fuel injection harness.

190627-jpg.537541


No 5 volt Vref at the MAP/Baro sensor, then the problem is either a broken wire in the main fuel injector harness or the computer has died.

Remove the passenger side kick panel to gain access to the computer.
a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316

Locate the orange/white wire (pin 26) on the computer connector and check for 5 volt Vref. Good 5 volt Vref and the computer is OK.

Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


No 5 volt Vref, then the computer has died. It is time to get out your wallet and go hunting…
Expect to pay $100 or more for a replacement computer. eBay has a repair service that is less expensive.




See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info Everyone should bookmark this site.

94-95 Mustang wiring diagrams
Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

O2 sensor wiring harness
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangO2Harness.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pin out
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif

Fuse box layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

Mustang 5.0 Lights and Radio schematic, by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxLights-Radio_diag.gif

87-92 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang87-92 PowerWindowWiring.gif

93 power window wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustang93PowerWindows.gif

T5 Cutaway showing T5 internal parts
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/5_Speed_Cutaway_Illustrated.jpg

Visual comparison of the Ford Fuel Injectors, picture by TMoss:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Ford_Injector_Guide.jpg

Convertible top motor wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/t...g/tech/engine/images/mustang88VertTopMotorCkt