Help me decide on a SB

[darkside03gt]

Later on this year I should have a very nice chunk of change to spend on the stang and I have worked out just about everything. I am going with a complete MM suspension, MM 6 point roll bar with swing out door bars, corbeau seats, 4 point harneses, ebc rotors and red pads, new rims and tires, upgrading my s-trim to a si-trim and getting complete rebuild while its at vortech, vortech aftercooler, trick flow FI heads and a new SB.

I cant decide on witch SB though. I have 4 options in my pol and will explain my positions on each of them below. I would like all that respond to give first hand experiences both good and bad please no "I heard from a guy" comments please. I really dont have plans for every going past 550rwhp so a cast crank isnt out of the question either.

1 MMR. I have heard people say good things about them but the people who say bad things arent specific and always say do a search or I know someone who knows someone who had a crummy experience with them. I have also been told that anything negitive written about them on certian forums gets deleted. I do like them because they are in socal (iam in sacramento) and they have very good prices.

2 foxlake. I have yet to run into anyone running there SBs, but have always heard very good things about them. they have a good rep for quality. Only problem is there prices. they have a $2995 SB with no name rods, manley pistons and a cast crank. The pistons dont come with coated skirts, I have to pay extra unlike a mph SB witch is my third choice. I can upgrade to manley rods and a cobra crank for about $400. Not sure how much the piston coating will cost me.

3 MPH. Everyone knows MPH's rep and they do have what I feel is one of the best deals going. There 800hp SB comes with manley rods and pistons, coated piston skirts and a forged crank all for $3,395. I can upgrade to arp main studs for another 110 or so. I have also considered there 600hp sb for $2995 that comes with a cast crank. but when you consider that a steel crank is only a little more I am thinking why not?

4 Livernoise. I have also heard gread things about them but have yet to run into anyone running one of there SBs. They seem to have a good rep for quality too. One downside is they are the most expensive. There forged SB is rated at 1000hp but it also costs 3995. It is pricey but I am not sure if its worth the extra $600 over a mph SB.

So a little help here would be nice guys

Thanks.
Tim.

 

[jprovence]

I went with the Aluminator. I had it in 5 days for ordering it. I got it for $4000 shipped. You really notice a difference with the lose of 75lbs of the nose of the car.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

Build, locate/buy your own parts and have MMR balance it and assemble it yourself of have them do it. I saved a whole crap load of money doing it that way. Or buy MMR's shortblock. Those are two money saving options. If you care a little less about money go livernoise or MPH for the assurance. But in the end, Manley rods and pistons, are manley rods and pistons. And speed-pro bearings are speed-pro, a cobra crank is a cobra crank ect..
This isn't head porting where you need to trust hand work and advertised flow numbers. This is part supply with assembly - i'd trust most local machine shops who mainly work with V8 and especially modulars to assemble a shortblock - so why not a company that only builds 4.6's and 5.4's?

 

[darkside03gt]

The aluminator is NOT a option. I need a compression ratio somewhere in the 9.1-9.5 range for my vortech witch last time I checked isnt a option. If I was going to spend that much on SB I'd go with livernoise.

 

[jprovence]

The aluminator is NOT a option. I need a compression ratio somewhere in the 9.1-9.5 range for my vortech witch last time I checked isnt a option. If I was going to spend that much on SB I'd go with livernoise.

On the compression note, its not bad. The piston dish on the aluminator I got is 13.5cc. Bumps it up into the high 9.8:1 or so. And you wouldn't get a fully forged alumiumn motor from livernoise for 4'gs shipped in less then a week either. Also, there is a guy putting down more then 1Kwhp in the 8's with an aluminator in a turbo 05 GT Full drag car.

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

At 9.8:1 compression, my guess is you'll have to start pulling timing at just over 11 psi to run pump gas. The whole point of forged SB is to run a lot of boost.

 

[jprovence]

On the compression note, its not bad. The piston dish on the aluminator I got is 13.5cc. Bumps it up into the high 9.8:1 or so. And you wouldn't get a fully forged alumiumn motor from livernoise for 4'gs shipped in less then a week either. Also, there is a guy putting down more then 1Kwhp in the 8's with an aluminator in a turbo 05 GT Full drag car.

This is why I went with the Aluminator...

Worlds First S197 3v in the 8's

YouTube - World's First/Quickest 3V S197 Mustang in the 8's

 

[darkside03gt]

It still not a option for me. I dont care how fast people go with that sb.

 

[darkside03gt]

77 views and only 9 votes? I know there has to be some personal experiences with these places. come on guys.

 

[TGJ]

Of your choices, I voted Livernois.

You want to see how some bad stuff on MMR, goto WWW.S197FORUM.COM - Powered by vBulletin and do a search on MMR. I am a member of that board. There is currently 3 members over there with blown up MMR engines, one member over there who lost his built engine do to a Brand new MMR 3V oil pump that failed, one member who has a failed MMR Stage 3 3V head. MMR won't do anything for any of those guys.

On the flip side a member over there had a failed Livernois P&P 3V head that failed, Livernois replaced it no questions asked.

On the flip side again, MMR has an motor mount adapter plate for the S197 platform. This adaptor allows S197( 05+ ) Mustangs to use older 04- iron & aluminum blocks modular engine blocks. The MMR adaptor requires some cutting, grinding and redrilling of holes to work. Other companies's adaptors fit with no modification and are priced very closely to MMRs. If MMR cannot machine a simple piece of aluminum to work with no modification, do you trust them to build an engine properly. I sure as hell wouldn't.

With your choices, Fox Lake, MPH or Livernois would be good to go with.

 

[darkside03gt]

thanks for the info. I have done more then a little searching on all four of my choices and have found very few negitive things about mmr but people keep telling me they arent a good choice. I know of one forum where anything negitive posted about them gets deleted. I knew of two oil pump failures (one was from my dyno guy, lost a 5.4) and I think there was one guy on this forum that had a mmr900 with one cylinder that would not seal up.

I am leaning more twards the mph SB. I would go livernoise but I have a chunk of change to play with and am trying to maximise it and livernoise is the most expensive. I may still go with them but the $600 difference between the livernoise and the mph will buy me some cams or get me really close to a trick flow intake. I am actually suprised more people arent voting mph. With there rep I would expect them to be #1 so far.

 

[98stangv8]

Who are you going to get to install it? Are you going to take your car to the location to have it installed, or just order it and have it shipped and put in locally?

 

[98stangv8]

I am actually suprised more people arent voting mph. With there rep I would expect them to be #1 so far.

They build a good product ...but the customer service and overall service is

In my opinion...they have too many cars there for them to build a perfect product...so they started sacrificing overall quality a little bit on their installs...

 

[darkside03gt]

Who are you going to get to install it? Are you going to take your car to the location to have it installed, or just order it and have it shipped and put in locally?

I am going to do the buildup and install. I know I can accomplish the buildup but not the assembly of the SB. I could probably fumble my way through it but I'd rather pay a little extra and have someone who does it for a living do it. The only tools I will need is a engine stand and cherry picker, I have just about everything else. I do as much of my own work as I can because 1 It saves me money for other things and 2 becuase I actually enjoy working on my car.

 

[jprovence]

I just did exactally what you did, you will be happy with whomever you go with in your list. BTW, you can drop the motor in with the transmission and headers attached if you drop it down almost at a 90* angle. It is easiers then trying to put the headers in afterwards. Of and this is with a K-member bolted to the car.

 

[darkside03gt]

Thanks for the advice. I am starting to become leery of mmr though. I am leaning more twards mph and foxlake.

 

[98stangv8]

Thanks for the advice. I am starting to become leery of mmr though. I am leaning more twards mph and foxlake.

I would go with foxlake..

 

[CobraRed_96_GT]

I can understand the oil pump argument, even I went with a oem cobra pump instead. And if you dont like their engine mounts dont buy em, that doesnt mean you're engine will explode. If you are worried about MMR then dont use their specific rods and ask for manleys. Look at every name on that list, what's going to be different in the SB? The assembly oil, and maybe bearings? Although i bet most are speed-pro/federal-mogul. None make their own crank/pistons/bearings ect. IS their assembly method different? Do they torque bolts in the wrong order or something? If you blow a Manley rod, or fry a manley piston, at the end of the day you either chose bad piston rings, are running too much power, or have a crap tune.
You're paying a parts supplier who also assembles. If i buy manley pistons alone for my SB from someone (like i did), and a piston takes a dive, i'm not contacting the company that sells Manley pistons - they just shipped it to me. I'm contacting Manley.

 

[darkside03gt]

I understand what you are saying cobrared. However I dont like some of the complaints I have found. I know every shop will have issues because nobody is perfect and sometimes you just flat out get a bad part that some how slipped past the manufacturers quality controll. MMR has more complaints then just oil pump failures. The part that is most disturbing is that MMR hasnt really made any efforts to make things right for any of these people. It would be different if they made efforts to make things right. I guess they havent figured out that good customer service is what really counts.

I think I have ruled them out. I know you are using them for you build and I hope everything works out for you but some stuff I have found sends chills up my spine. I am convinced they dont have very good quality controll. Like TGJ told me do a search for MMR on Welcome to S197 Forums. The only forum on the internet dedicated solely to the S197 Mustang! and see for yourself. I have also been told that anything negitive about them on the corral gets deleted. All this sends up to many red flags for me. I have to stretch the money I have as far as I can but I cant afford to do something twice. Good luck.

 

[darkside03gt]

I would go with foxlake..

Why? do you have personal experience you could share with me? I am going to contact them before I make my final discission.