PI intake disaster. Questions/Comments!

[RysRed96GT]

:OT: first of all. those with 96 GT's have a welded on water pump nipple and requires cutting off of the coolant hose and putting a L-rubber tube on instead, dont bother buying the 00 water pump nipple.

anyway...

damnit!!!!! i fired everything up, well, first i forgot to plug the pass. coil pack back in...then i did, started it up, ran rough, then smoothed out. then i heard a whistling sound

i didnt htink it was the intake, i used plenty of gasket maker. but then again...

although, i did not torque to specifications, i only went from the inside-out sequence little by little. i cant find my Haynes and if anyone could post the exact torque specs and instructions, i would really appreciate that. there seem to be no coolant problems. my check engine light is on with the whistling. it seems to be coming from the back of the engine. but my question is, if there was a leak between the manifold and head in one bank, could that throw a CEL? the car seems to run a tad rougher and doesnt seem to have the pep it did before (but that might be due to a bad emissions problem that MIGHT NOT be from a port-leak). im resetting the battery again right now since i started it with no right coil pack . maybe it was left over from before.

my comments are....

who said we have to use the pre 99 gaskets (if that might be my problem)? the pi gaskets lined up perfectly, with the exception of one coolant passage that was slightly inside on the head, but that can be fixed with permetex!!! the passages are going to be different sizes anyway. the gaskets will work perfectly on the heads and the manifold. if i get an odd code pulled this week and it's something with the cylinder, im going to put the PI gaskets on this time, which i feel now (after looking at everything today and comparing) would work much better than the NPI.

leave comments on those who have done it. thanx.

 

[asthmaticZeater]

as far as i know none of the water pump nipples are welded. my very early production 96 didnt, and ive never heard of anyone else having one. it will take some hammering to get the old one out though, hammering it towards the front bumper. but its not welded.

secondly, with the PI gaskets, you will have a coolant leak. and i wouldnt trust using anything to try and seal it, cause if it ever comes loose, it will clog something.

 

[LI98GTStang]

NPI gaskets are definately the way to go to not get any coolant leaks. I put a bead of RTV on the inside part of the gasket (towards the V) and don't have any leaks at all. Car runs great and strong with the PI intake.

Sorry to hear your still having trouble with this swap. Before you tear into it again, make sure you don't have any vaccum leaks elsewhere. Not sure what else to suggest, other than go to slow and place the PI intake directly back down so as to get a good seat and torque down in proper sequence.

 

[RysRed96GT]

NPI gaskets are definately the way to go to not get any coolant leaks. I put a bead of RTV on the inside part of the gasket (towards the V) and don't have any leaks at all. Car runs great and strong with the PI intake.

Sorry to hear your still having trouble with this swap. Before you tear into it again, make sure you don't have any vaccum leaks elsewhere. Not sure what else to suggest, other than go to slow and place the PI intake directly back down so as to get a good seat and torque down in proper sequence.

i put about a 1/4" slab of the rtv along almost the entire edge of the inside gasket, and put more along the middle two ports where some of the overlapping was. should i have put it on other spots too?

about the sound im hearing...when i turn it off, it makes a big "swooosh" sound when it turns off, it sounds like a vacume problem. can a port leak make a sound like this? becuase this sounds like its a vacume problem above the intake with one of the hoses.

also, the whistling sound does not vary with RPM, actually seems to get less with added throttle. could this or could this not narrow it down to not being a leak in the port?

 

[RysRed96GT]

does anyone think i could be leaking air in through the injectors? i tried to get them back in as best as i could, but it might be possible


im so sad right now why does this crap have to happen to me

 

[asthmaticZeater]

your fuel rail wont bolt down fully if any of the injectors are even bearly out so if theyre bolted down fully i doubt thats your problem.

id go to AZ and get the codes pulled and go from there.

 

[RysRed96GT]

UPDATE:

alright, after i reset the comp, there's no more CEL, but that sound is still there. i took it for a drive and here's that i felt

-exhaust note is definatly deeper sounding and slightly louder (no variance in sound between the two pipes)
-seems to pick up some power around 3K, seems to pull a little better.
-when i punch it however, it doesnt seem to jump as instantaneously as before, but that might be due to the warmer weather.

otherwise, i like it aside from the hissing. the sound is coming from under the intake, but i never noticed how loud it was prior to the intake swap. either way, im puttin on the heads in about 2 months anway.


another theory....could the whistling sound be due to the coolant line now touching the intake runners underneith? i used the newer coolant line, but because i had to modify it somewhat because i had to reuse the stock pump nipple, it's touching the runners. could the sound of water passing through resonate off the plastic intake and cause that sound? the sound does not vary with RPM, but stays consistant throughout any amount of throttle or rpm


any thoughts onto this are greatly appreciated.

zeater - does autozone still pull codes for free?

 

[Scrody96GT]

Like ZEater said, the 96 water pump nipple iS NOT welded in, and buying the new nipple is still the best way to do the job IMO. But since you've already gone past that, I guess it doesn't really matter now. Also, as Zeater said, the PI gaskets might seal but it doesn't align with the coolant ports perfectly.

Don't take any offense to this, but when you're replacing a pretty important part, like this manifold, you REALLY need to make sure that you USE the proper torque specs & run the bolts down in the correct order to ensure a proper seal. I hope, for your sake, that you find that Haynes book before you put your PI heads on.

Here's a pic I took from the Haynes book of the tightening order. The bolts need to be torqued to 15 to 22 ft lbs., and then RETORQUED after the engine warms up.

Finally, you're probably gonna get more input if you post this on modulardepot.com. The tech on Stangnet is Mickey Mouse-ish compared to the Tech over there.

 

[LI98GTStang]

Did you try and loosen the intake bolts and retorque them down? You should be able to reach them without too much trouble. Maybe use some carb cleaner spray and shoot it around the outside of the intake to see if you can identify the leak?

 

[RysRed96GT]

thanx!!

the diagram is great, thanx for scanning that. i looked all over and cant find my haynes. is there any way you can scan the article about bolting procedure? i did a similar order of the bolts, but did not loosen and retorque. would i have to drain the coolant in order to retorque? or could i get by without having to?

also, im starting to think this is a vacume problem. it sounds like a similiar sound as before but louder. i actually made a vid of the engine but am trying to get just the audio portion to upload to see if u guys can maybe help identify it

 

[RysRed96GT]

and i already tried to go to modulardepot but when i registered, it still has yet to send me a confirmation email, i'll try again later.

if it was a port leak, wouldnt it vary with rpm and cause a CEL? because mine doesnt and has no CEL.

 

[Scrody96GT]

thanx!!

the diagram is great, thanx for scanning that. i looked all over and cant find my haynes. is there any way you can scan the article about bolting procedure? i did a similar order of the bolts, but did not loosen and retorque. would i have to drain the coolant in order to retorque? or could i get by without having to?

There isn't much that the book says, besides the diagram. And I don't know where this loosening idea came up, but I don't see why you'd want to LOOSEN the bolts and retorque them. The Haynes book says to torque the bolts, and retorque after the motor gets warm (NO LOOSENING).

I have a question: Did you clean the cylinder heads around the ports good before you installed the gaskets?

 

[fstnfuriusgirl]

<---RYSRED96


ok. i was thinking of just loosening them this weekend, trying to add some more rtv under there if i can, then retorque to the proper sequence and ftlb's.

yes, i did clean off the the heads before putting them down.

i did reuse my old gaskets though, should i have gotten new ones?

 

[LI98GTStang]

<---RYSRED96


ok. i was thinking of just loosening them this weekend, trying to add some more rtv under there if i can, then retorque to the proper sequence and ftlb's.

yes, i did clean off the the heads before putting them down.

i did reuse my old gaskets though, should i have gotten new ones?

The problem with your idea, is that you can only get to the outer portion of the intake and the leak, most likely is in the inner portion. Did you try the carb spray trick to identify the leak?

You always take a chance when reusing the old gaskets and in this case you might have gambled and lost. My gauge for whether I reuse a gasket or not is first age and mileage. Also use difficulty in how to get at that gasket if it did indeed leak? For this PI intake swap, I got new NPI gaskets along with a new waterpump gasket and nipple (which also comes with new gaskets). Another example, when I upgraded my NPI cams to PI, I replaced the front engine gaskets, but reused the valve cover (cam cover) gaskets because the engine gaskets would have been a bitch to break down and replace. Cam covers would have been easy and engine had only 25k miles back then.

If you've done all you can do identify your vaccum or air intake leak, I would recommend that you get a new pair of NPI gaskets, and start over but you do have the coolant line already done. The whole process should take you a lot shorter time than when you first did it as you know what to do. Good luck!

 

[vvzer0incvv]

Sorry to steal your thread but your post got me thinking....Since the swap when i shut off the car i get a slight hissing sound...almost like haveing another CAI...should i be worried...car runs great...no codes...smooth as can me. Thanks

 

[Scrody96GT]

<---RYSRED96


ok. i was thinking of just loosening them this weekend, trying to add some more rtv under there if i can, then retorque to the proper sequence and ftlb's.

yes, i did clean off the the heads before putting them down.

i did reuse my old gaskets though, should i have gotten new ones?

There's no way that'll work. First, it's probably hard to know exactly where that leak is coming from, so once again you're taking a gamble there assuming you know the spot. Secondly, if you're going through the trouble of draining the coolant (which you'll have to do) and taking all the other crap off, you might as well just quit taking shortcuts and do it right. IMO, the best thing for you to do is buy some new gaskets, and do the job again.

If you would've had some new gaskets to compare to the old ones you took off, you would've seen how important they were. The blue ridges on the new set were VERY taller than the ones on the old gaskets, and it was obvious that the old ones I took off would never seal perfectly.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you live and learn.

 

[ChadS98GT]

Since we seem to have quite a few people in here that have done the swap I am curious how you guys have tapped the second water temp sensor in....??

I am probably going to be getting a PI intake with the plastic crossover..and I have heard of some people tapping the water neck? think that's what it's called...basically the spot where the coolant hose connects...it's like a metal plate...how does this work anyone know??

I can't use the plug in the block...I have an aftermarket water temp gauge there..

 

[RysRed96GT]

Since we seem to have quite a few people in here that have done the swap I am curious how you guys have tapped the second water temp sensor in....??

I am probably going to be getting a PI intake with the plastic crossover..and I have heard of some people tapping the water neck? think that's what it's called...basically the spot where the coolant hose connects...it's like a metal plate...how does this work anyone know??

I can't use the plug in the block...I have an aftermarket water temp gauge there..

you need to go to a plumbing store and get a 3/8" PIPE thread tap. get a 9/16" drill bit (if you can get a 37/64" then thats better, but it wont kill ya). use a drill press and drill the hole, then tap. you'll prolly use the whole length of the tap because it's a tapered thread. i can get a pic of mine tommorrow for ya. try calling around for the tap, i spend most of my day just trying to find the damn tap , finally found it at some tiny plumbing store in the city...

 

[ChadS98GT]

alright guys....I went to ford today to get some of the parts hoping to do this swap this weekend and they didn't have some of hte stuff in stock.

Here is what I did get. Intake gaskets water pump o ring and thermo o ring....

on order I have the coolant crossover tube and I can get the thermo bolts from another dealer if I wnat them....

here is my question can I use the regular crossover tube and just modify it a little bit.? or would I be riskin it? second what are these damn bolts for? can't I just reuse the ones that are on my intake??

oh and he couldn't find the water pump nipple...said that I didn't have the right part number...and the piece we thought it was wasn't in stock...is that a necessity also??

 

[Scrody96GT]

alright guys....I went to ford today to get some of the parts hoping to do this swap this weekend and they didn't have some of hte stuff in stock.

Here is what I did get. Intake gaskets water pump o ring and thermo o ring....

on order I have the coolant crossover tube and I can get the thermo bolts from another dealer if I wnat them....

here is my question can I use the regular crossover tube and just modify it a little bit.? or would I be riskin it? second what are these damn bolts for? can't I just reuse the ones that are on my intake??

oh and he couldn't find the water pump nipple...said that I didn't have the right part number...and the piece we thought it was wasn't in stock...is that a necessity also??

Well, when I did the swap I compared the t-stat housing bolts to my old ones, and they looked the same, but I didn't argue with Randy Stinchcomb when he suggested that I get them. He can get you all of the parts that you haven't got yet, and fast too.

People have modified the stock tube, but personally I think it's a lot easier just to get the new tube and the nipple. It seems a lot more reliable than just rigging up the old one with hose clamps too. The stock nipple may be a booger to get it, but it is NOT welded in as certain people (cough, cough.. RysRed96GT..cough) have suggested.

Anyway, I suggest you contact Randy at the parts forum on modulardepot.com. He can get you everything you don't have yet.