I think I'm going to need to buy a welder to fix up my Mach, I've found fiberglass repairs in a couple of spots in the engine bay, and a nasty looking patch on the floor, as well as a little rust hole in the door jamb. And thats just what I've found so far. I'm looking into buying a 120V MIG setup, and am trying to get the most mileage outta a buck (hell, if I wasn't on a tight budget I sure wouldn't be doing this miserable body stuff). How much of a welder do I need for something like this? I'm really interested in the Campbell Hausfelds since an 80A can be had for a little over $200, but am also looking at a similar sized, but more expensive Lincoln, as well as a Craftsman. Anyone have any experience with the cheaper units? Just wondering if they're junk or not. Also, how much does it cost to rent/buy the gas and tank?
Lets talk welders...
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68_stanger
New Member
I would deffeniately look into one that will support the gas. It is much easier to weld and cleaner. I know some of the cheaper ones the wire is hot all the time which kindof sucks imo. I like to pull the trigger and let it feed for it to become hot, but its personal preferance.
All 3 of come with the gas parts; I realized that if it didn't that was around another 100 bucks. The Sears site sucks so I don't know much about that welder's power or heat settings, but it has the best duty cycle (and I'm thinking the most power, the other 2 are 80ish amps).... The CH has the best price, and the Lincoln I'm looking at has the best reputation.
The Craftsman: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...kgadcmgkdjhgkcehgcemgdffmdflk.0&vertical=TOOL
The Lincoln: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...&vertical=TOOL&pid=00920580000&subcat=Welders
The CH: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CAM-WG3000&N=120
The CH can be had way cheaper than that, around 200 on EBay. Both the CH and the Lincoln have 4 heat settings, not sure about the Craftsman. The Lincoln has a cold wire. But all 3 come with gas provisions (I don't know what I'm doing, anything to make my welds not look like crap. I may go ahead and replace my entire floors; should be good practice).
The Craftsman: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...kgadcmgkdjhgkcehgcemgdffmdflk.0&vertical=TOOL
The Lincoln: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...&vertical=TOOL&pid=00920580000&subcat=Welders
The CH: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CAM-WG3000&N=120
The CH can be had way cheaper than that, around 200 on EBay. Both the CH and the Lincoln have 4 heat settings, not sure about the Craftsman. The Lincoln has a cold wire. But all 3 come with gas provisions (I don't know what I'm doing, anything to make my welds not look like crap. I may go ahead and replace my entire floors; should be good practice).
Hack
15 Year Member
I recently bought a Hobart, and I know nothing about welding other than some reading I've done in the last couple weeks. Fired it up this weekend and it works great! 
It's really easy to use, and about 1/2 of my welds already look good. 
It's another small welder that runs off 110V. A 20 amp circuit is recommended. It welds up to 1/4 inch thick material, which is plenty for me.
edit: Mine is a 140 amp model.
It's really easy to use, and about 1/2 of my welds already look good. It's another small welder that runs off 110V. A 20 amp circuit is recommended. It welds up to 1/4 inch thick material, which is plenty for me.
edit: Mine is a 140 amp model.
WORTH
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
I've had a Lincoln 100 amp with gas for 10 years, it is plenty good enough for anything on a mustang. I just purchased a 175 amp Hobart for the frame work on my 46 pickup, the 100 isn't good enough for that. Play it buy ear, I bought the Hobart NEW on Ebay for 460 including shipping.
Good God! I went to the supply store here today, and they wanted damn near $300 for bottle purchase+fill, said renting one for a year would cost nearly the same. Would there be any reason for them not to fill a bottle bought elsewhere (knowing my luck they'll get one)?
Anyhow... I did get to look at a few though. The lower-end Lincolns (read, affordable) didn't seem like anything special, honestly. 4 heat settings, 20% duty cycle, which seemed to put them in league with "lesser" brands. Anyone attest to how well these cheaper Lincolns are built? Paying more for a better quality product is one thing, paying more for a better name is another. The models with infinite heat controls were over $500. They didn't have any Hobarts in stock, but I've looked online. They seem competitively priced (better than Lincolns for what you get) except for none of the lower models COME with the gas regulator, which would be another hundred bucks. They tried selling me a Lincoln SP135 for $600ish, and the similar sized Handler for 100 less.
Also, I never see any speak of stick welders.. Anyone care to enlighten me? I'm sure I don't see them mentioned for good reason, but curiosity is curiosity.
Anyhow... I did get to look at a few though. The lower-end Lincolns (read, affordable) didn't seem like anything special, honestly. 4 heat settings, 20% duty cycle, which seemed to put them in league with "lesser" brands. Anyone attest to how well these cheaper Lincolns are built? Paying more for a better quality product is one thing, paying more for a better name is another. The models with infinite heat controls were over $500. They didn't have any Hobarts in stock, but I've looked online. They seem competitively priced (better than Lincolns for what you get) except for none of the lower models COME with the gas regulator, which would be another hundred bucks. They tried selling me a Lincoln SP135 for $600ish, and the similar sized Handler for 100 less.
Also, I never see any speak of stick welders.. Anyone care to enlighten me? I'm sure I don't see them mentioned for good reason, but curiosity is curiosity.
Hack
15 Year Member
I think my first bottle purchase + fill was $100. I got the smallest one they had, though. The place I went to is open every day of the week, so refills aren't a problem. And the 20% duty cycle shouldn't be that much of a problem, IMO. If you're production welding big machine framework that doesn't have to be very straight, you can just weld weld weld. On sheet metal or other thin car stuff, you want to keep the heat low. So you're going to do a bit here, a bit there...
I spent a day putting together a welding cart, and the 20% duty cycle never stopped me. I didn't purposely try to go slow or anything. Most of the time is making sure everything is straight and lined up correctly.
edit: oh, and stick welders are real crap compared to a mig. Especially if you want the welds to look good. They are also a royal pain to strike an arc with and you constantly have to change rods. Oh, and cleaning the slag off the weld.
I spent a day putting together a welding cart, and the 20% duty cycle never stopped me. I didn't purposely try to go slow or anything. Most of the time is making sure everything is straight and lined up correctly.
edit: oh, and stick welders are real crap compared to a mig. Especially if you want the welds to look good. They are also a royal pain to strike an arc with and you constantly have to change rods. Oh, and cleaning the slag off the weld.
If you have Lowes or Home depot they both had the Lincoln 135 amp kit with hoses for gas the cheapest. Hobart is supposedly a little better than the lincolns. my 135 amp with all thaq attachment and cheap cart at home depot was $437, 40lb bottle and filled $140 and $30 to refill, I own bottle too. Only regret is maybe going to the 175 amp to do heavier but they get pricey
I'll look into Lowes, I was planning a trip to Sears to check out the Craftsman (and whatever else they had sitting around), I'll go to Lowes while I'm up there (I HATE Home Depot with the burning of 1000 suns; I bought a compressor+tool setup 3 months ago that was damaged during factory assembly, still waiting on them to come pick the damn thing up so they can send me a new one). So $140 got you a FULL 40lb bottle? I knew they were givin' me the shaft. I'm friends with the guy that owns the local exhaust shop, I was talking to him today and he said to go with a 175, but the $$$ is just too much and my garage is detached so getting the extra voltage out there would be a big issue.
Yeah, I figured for my purposes given my ability the 20% duty cycle would be sufficent, but I also noticed that the Craftsman at 60A IIRC is 40%, so thats a bonus. I found refurb'd Lincoln 100's for $390 with the MIG kit, I'm beginning to really think about that (but I wanna give the Craftsman a look first, no specs at Sears' site). I'm sure I will also go slow, and I don't have a tremendous amount of welding to be done anyway. I could probably do it all in a day, but I still would like to have a welder on hand for other occasions like exhaust and such.
Anyone know any sites that sell bottles? I looked at EBay and came up empty, and my supply store is definitely out (which is disappointing considering I was hoping they'd be reasonably priced).
Yeah, I figured for my purposes given my ability the 20% duty cycle would be sufficent, but I also noticed that the Craftsman at 60A IIRC is 40%, so thats a bonus. I found refurb'd Lincoln 100's for $390 with the MIG kit, I'm beginning to really think about that (but I wanna give the Craftsman a look first, no specs at Sears' site). I'm sure I will also go slow, and I don't have a tremendous amount of welding to be done anyway. I could probably do it all in a day, but I still would like to have a welder on hand for other occasions like exhaust and such.
Anyone know any sites that sell bottles? I looked at EBay and came up empty, and my supply store is definitely out (which is disappointing considering I was hoping they'd be reasonably priced).
WORTH
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
If you want EMAIL this guy, this one cost me 460 with shipping, he should be able to get you a smaller one if you need the 110 volt. He's a bit slow, I won the bid on the 2nd and UPS claims it's gonna show here today, but I couldn't beat the price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3830860461&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3830860461&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT
351LX
Founding Member
I have a Lincoln Mig Pak 10 and it works great.It comes ready to use gas so you don't have to buy a kit.My first bottle with the fill was about $140 Canadian.Refills are done on an exchange basis so I never have the same bottle twice.I had a Clarke 90EN welder before that which was just flux core.I can't say anything bad about it, I used it for about 10 yrs with no problems and now my brother uses it.The duty cycle on the Clarke became an issue on any big projects but you could work around it.The Lincoln with the gas and .023 wire is a lot easier to weld sheetmetal than the Clarke was with the .035 flux core.I use my arc welder for anything over 1/4" but if you think you might need to do thicker stuff and only want one welder there is a Lincoln Mig Pak 15 which is 220V for a little more money.
Arc welders are pretty good once you learn how to use them. Sometimes striking an arc can be a pain. For doing stuff like body work the mig is more practical because you're doing short welds. Doing those with an arc welder can be a PITA. On the plus side, arc welds are very strong. And if you know what you're doing you can lay down some really nice beads.
1320stang
Founding Member
If you are a beginner welder, Arc welding will not do you any good for welding sheet metal body panels. MIG is the easiest form of welding to leard, period. Not using gas is not MIG welding (Metal Inert Gas, aka GMAW - Gas Metal Arc Welding), that's FCAW or Flux Cored Arc Welding. You want gas, it's so much nicer and easier. You also want as much amperage as you can get for the other things you'll do besides sheet metal (and believe me, you will use it for many things).
A buddy and I went in together on a Miller 130A 110v several years ago. It was $600 with the gas kit. The bottle filled with gas was $90 and every time we take it in, it costs about $20-$25 to trade it on another bottle. We also have the smallest bottle. We "own" (actually rent I think, for a one time fee) the bottle but never get the same bottle back. I don't believe you can own your own bottles anymore unless you're grandfathered in. This is for your own safety as the bottles need to be pressure tested every so many years. By swapping them out everytime, they can make sure they're up to snuff and you also don't have to wait to get them filled up, you just swap and go. We use AirGas with is a pretty large company and has many "dealerships" across the USA.
I could legally weld in a NHRA legal roll cage with this welder (if I were certified) that would be mild steel and the thickest wall tubing would be .134". A 'moly cage has to be TIG welded in (my next welding purchase
... $1600 
)
There's nothing wrong with getting a reman unit as long as it was remaned by the original company. Think about it, it was something that was wrong with it when it was initially built and somehow made it thru testing. It's now been caught and corrected and is basically a new unit at a discounted price although it may have a minor scratch or two. You might also ask your local welding dealer if he has any repos that you could buy. You might find a used 185A 220v machine for a 135A 110v new price. They typically check these machines out before reselling them. With a 220v machine, you could build a trailer to haul your car.
A buddy and I went in together on a Miller 130A 110v several years ago. It was $600 with the gas kit. The bottle filled with gas was $90 and every time we take it in, it costs about $20-$25 to trade it on another bottle. We also have the smallest bottle. We "own" (actually rent I think, for a one time fee) the bottle but never get the same bottle back. I don't believe you can own your own bottles anymore unless you're grandfathered in. This is for your own safety as the bottles need to be pressure tested every so many years. By swapping them out everytime, they can make sure they're up to snuff and you also don't have to wait to get them filled up, you just swap and go. We use AirGas with is a pretty large company and has many "dealerships" across the USA.
I could legally weld in a NHRA legal roll cage with this welder (if I were certified) that would be mild steel and the thickest wall tubing would be .134". A 'moly cage has to be TIG welded in (my next welding purchase
... $1600 )There's nothing wrong with getting a reman unit as long as it was remaned by the original company. Think about it, it was something that was wrong with it when it was initially built and somehow made it thru testing. It's now been caught and corrected and is basically a new unit at a discounted price although it may have a minor scratch or two. You might also ask your local welding dealer if he has any repos that you could buy. You might find a used 185A 220v machine for a 135A 110v new price. They typically check these machines out before reselling them. With a 220v machine, you could build a trailer to haul your car.
WORTH: Thanks for the tip, I'll shoot him an email. You got a steal on that one though, if I found one that size for that price it'd be hard to not snag it. Considering my welding shop tried to sell me the 135 for 200 more than that, I couldn't pass it up.
Honestly, I think AirGas is somehow affiliated with my local shop, maybe their parent company (their name is Valley). They sure haven't adopted their pricing though.
I am not only a beginning welder, I'm a never-have-welder... I have only watched, never participated. I've been reading online and seen that Hobart is owned by Miller and alot of the newer machines developed are lighter duty than previous.
Honestly, I think AirGas is somehow affiliated with my local shop, maybe their parent company (their name is Valley). They sure haven't adopted their pricing though.
I am not only a beginning welder, I'm a never-have-welder... I have only watched, never participated. I've been reading online and seen that Hobart is owned by Miller and alot of the newer machines developed are lighter duty than previous.
I was just about to ask this question when I seen your post, I was at Sears today looking at welders and all they had was the 199 dollar gasless wire feed. I think im going to get this model, they sell it on the website, its the same Lincoln you posted.
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...vertical=TOOL&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes
I figure for 320 shipped I can teach myself how to weld and do the floorpans and rust repairs myself and save a few thousand dollars. After this I just need a good compressor and im set, Sears has a 30gal 5HP model on sale for $259 which looks good to me.
One question, I heard for floorpans you tack weld, How do you tack weld? also when I sit the new pans in there is spaces were the old grooves in the floor dont meet the new ones, do I have to weld in a peice of metal to cover them up?
Thanks,
Jim
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...vertical=TOOL&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes
I figure for 320 shipped I can teach myself how to weld and do the floorpans and rust repairs myself and save a few thousand dollars. After this I just need a good compressor and im set, Sears has a 30gal 5HP model on sale for $259 which looks good to me.
One question, I heard for floorpans you tack weld, How do you tack weld? also when I sit the new pans in there is spaces were the old grooves in the floor dont meet the new ones, do I have to weld in a peice of metal to cover them up?
Thanks,
Jim
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