300bhp/ton said:I asked this on a fbody site (so as to be completly unbiased), click here to see what they thought of that statement
Sorry missed that first part.300bhp/ton said:Maybe this will help:
WS6 or Ram Air will have no real bearing on its potentail as the engines produce the same BHP, as long as you don't beleive the GM quoted figures.
This not a flame just an honest question. Who actually claims more for Ram Air? If you are reffering to GM with the Fbody's then - No as all of them produced about 345bhp, it was cheaper for GM to advertise a lower output to help prevent lost Corvette sales than actually detune the LS1. I beleive the Mach 1 with 305bhp also had a functioning hood scoop aka Ram Air, yet its increase in power over the GT is more attributed to the rest of the engine such as DOHC and TB size, also bear in mind that the 'non-ram air' variant of the same engine used in the earlier Cobra's produced 320bhp.crazykid2056 said:Ok, if the Ram-Air is fruitless as so many have said, why do the Ram-Air models make 15 HP over those without?
As for Ram Air, well that is a big topic. Basically its really cool but not really a great performance mod. Hence companies like Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, McLaren don't use it. Logical isn't it, however the answer lies with physics.
Basically and engine will only ever draw X amount of air thru the intake, to visulise image an engine draws 1 pint of water every second. Now unless you perform other mods such as exhaust and heads/cam the engine will not draw a greater amount of air.
You can not force greater quantities into the engine either, such as 2 pints per second if the engine does not want it. This is what ram air will try and do. The only way you can get more air into the engine is thru forced induction such as a turbo or supercharger.
These will compress 2 pints of water into a one pint class. So the engine is still drawing at the same rate, but the intake air is much densers.
So at low speeds a ram air setup will only act as a regular CAI. As the speed builds it will sort of work though bases on the science above. As the air hits the inside of the scoop it actually becomes compressed thus increaseing the charge densisty of the air. So technically any ram air car becomes slightly FI at speed (although very low psi levels). The down side is the extra drag produced by the scoops. In many cases this is likely to cancel out any benefit from the increased power. In fact in the 80's Aston Martin did exactly this, the V8 coupe used to have a big scoop on the bonnet, yet by using a regular air intake they managed to get more power at lower speeds and due to the better aerodynamics it also had a higher top speed.
The other (and much more effective) alternative is still called ram air but it envolves the RAM pipes and bellmouths inside the air intake manifold. Any tube containing air can be made to resonate at certain critical frequencies in the manner of an organ pipe. Such is the case with the inlet tracts of an engine and if the natural resonance frequencies can be matched to the engine speed then a mild supercharging effect can be induced.
Ram Air is no myth. It just doesn't always work, a subtle but important differance!
An extreme example is Concord, the engineers had a problem with too much air flow entering the Rolls Royce engines at high speed (Mach 1+), so to redude the air intake speed they added a giant baffle scoop which only move into position at high speed, this not only slowed the air down but also compressed it, thus aiding powerout from the engines.
To further the argumanet, the Bristol Fighter uses a form of ram air, or rather very well designed air intake system to acheive more power at high speed.
Here is a direst quote from Bristol:
"Power output of 525 bhp increases further at very high speed due to aerodynamically induced supercharging effect. Maximum speed approximately 210 mph."
Not the lack of actually hood scoops as these would ultimatley cause more drag and reduce top speed.
For more info on the fighter check out thier webpage: http://www.bristolcars.co.uk/BristolFighter.htm
crazykid2056 said:Ok, if the Ram-Air is fruitless as so many have said, why do the Ram-Air models make 15 HP over those without?
kystang1889 said:there are little diff. (according to a few f-body friends) trans, rear and such, not exactly sure tho
Wsmatau said:In theory, but in reality a SS Camaro will beat a WS-6 firebird every time and they have identical engines.
300bhp/ton said:well I own neither, but I am a member of a few fbody boards.
Post that there and it'd probably crash the server. The only real difference between the Z and the TA is the aero package, but it is unlikely to have any real affect the low side 120mph, and from what I've read not a great deal at higher speeds either.
RAM air is a pretty pointless mod and always has been (although still rather cool, but that won't alter the physics behind it).
Further to my post on the Fbody site and the prediction it would cause trouble, the thread was locked yesterday!300bhp/ton said:I asked this on a fbody site (so as to be completly unbiased), click here to see what they thought of that statement
300bhp/ton said:Further to my post on the Fbody site and the prediction it would cause trouble, the thread was locked yesterday!
looks like your doing fine on your own.Wsmatau said:Those F-body guys really know how to put together an intelligent argument! So, have you proven your statement? Or did you just stir the pot on yet another website? Or did you just want to post the same two articles you regularly post about Ram-air? Did you want to hijack this thread to discuss ram-air? Or are you just trying to get this locked?