AFR please help me understand

[murphmaster5]

I want to get a pair of the afr 165's and im reading along and thay say we recomend you getting getting better valve springs and getting arp studs, Okay help me understand this im going to spend 1350 on a set of heads that come with the springs and the studs and then i gotta spend more money.
Is this nessicary or is it just a recomendation.
If anyone has another head recomendation please let me know i would love to save some $ and all im looking for is a 12 second street car and im not worried about emissions. Thanks guys

 

[Dbeck002]

I have 165s and take my word for it, the springs they come with are insane.

2 different springs and an internal damper. You DONT need to upgrade them.

 

[Grn92LX]

Stock afr springs aren't too good for any decent camshaft. A custom or a comp XE grind will not be a cam i'd want to risk using with afr springs. Same goes for TW springs. Ask yourself if the $150 you save now on springs is worth ruining an engine. If it is, use the stock springs. If you have common sense and your cam requires better springs, upgrade A good spring package from FTI is around $150 + what the machine shop charges to install them and properly set the height.

 

[Dbeck002]

He just wants a 12 second street car. He wont be running an insane cam. AFR springs are fine.

 

[Rick 91GT]

What is the cam...

The springs are not "junk" but they are not designed for a healthy asymetrical lobe cam. They have 120# of seat pressure, and out of the box they have been pretty much right on. I like to upgrade to the ARP studs but I have used the stock studs with no issues.

Springs Depends on the cam, and then the studs depend on the springs

murphmaster where in PA are you?

 

[Teen'93stang5.0]

well, im not much use here, i thought you were confused about air/fuel ratio though, but nevermind

 

[luckythirteen13]

what cam are you going with? im making over 400 with the stock afr springs but i have the stock cam

 

[408stroker5.0]

Rick91GT hit it right on the money of course. Depends on what cam your running....If you are going to be changing your spring's check out Comp Cams Bee Hive Springs. They're Extremely Light and allow you to get a bit more RPM out of a Hyd. Roller Cam then a conventional spring would allow. I'm running them on my 408 w/AFR 205 heads, and so far they've been great.

Shon

 

[murphmaster5]

im going to use an e cam or i might go with comp and have one made but it will still be mild, OHH and would i need different size pushrods than stock if i use the afr165's with an e cam

 

[murphmaster5]

hay RICK 91 GT im in Lancaster U

 

[Rick 91GT]

A e-cam would be fine, if you have one made COMP can base it around those springs if your not willing to change them.

You'll need new pushrods since you need HARDENED pushrods for use with the guide plates, you'll need to double check the length but most end up in the 6.27-6.25 range (stock is 6.27) TFS pushrods are very nice for the money.

I'm in Hanover (York County)

 

[Dbeck002]

Im using stock AFR springs with trickflow cam and no problems so far.

 

[SmockDoiley]

Like most heads out there, the stock springs they come with are more designed for flat tappet cams or smaller roller cams. Its really the steep slopes and lift that dictate if you need springs. If you are going with an Ecam or equiv. then you are fine with the standard springs on the 165s. If you are going N/A then a regular head bolt or stud will work fine. Only go with some nice bolts if you are running a power adder or really high compression.

 

[ScatStroker]

As everyone else has eluded to ... It depends on your camshaft and application.

AFR's stock springs are a basic, entry level, dual spring setup for .550 lift. Many 'old' grind cams (Alphabet, TFS Stg 1, ect.) will work fine with the basic spring. Many 'new' cams have more aggressive lobes and are harder on springs, requiring not only a stronger spring but a higher quality, more durable spring.

Additionally some people just don't understand the hydraulic roller cams inherhently float at high RPM. It's part of their design and short of making it act like a solid, buying specific pushrods, lifters, ect you're going to have to limit your RPM and use your HEAD and not your foot all the time. A stronger spring can give a litte bit of insurance against this, not much but a little bit depending on the spring, ect.

AFR had some isolated stud issues roughly 2 years ago. They had a batch that were brittle (if I recall) and occassionally broke. This has not been an issue since, in my experience, but if you're buying rockers (or have 7/16) then a stud upgrade is a very inexpensive ($30) upgrade.

If you have any specific questions about the heads you can email me and I'd be happy to answer them.

Brian