Swap and Build

[Kirko]

I have a 94 Mustang 5spd 3.8L. I can't find a 94-04 v8 for a cheap price anywhere near me in my price range. Thus, it looks like I am going to have to do a swap.

I don't want any BS. I just want to know every single piece I am going to need for this swap and what all I am going to have to do so I can do it in a few days to a week rather than figure everything out as I go and having it take a month or two getting parts. This is my DD so I can't have it in the garage for a month or more while I do it.
So far this is what I have figured out. I need a complete 5.0L engine that I am going to get out of 94/95(someone told me I would have to do extra work if I get a 302 out of a fox body so I am going to just got with a 94/95 5.0). I need the computer and wiring harness also. Would I need another tranny? I will need an 8.8 rear later. Will I have to mess with the motor mounts and fuel lines at all? I will have to get gauges and get those set correctly. Anything else I am forgetting about?


I was also wanting to build the engine some before I drop it in. I want to do as much as I can while the engine is out of the car before I put it in to make it easier on me later and not have to do too much work. I was thinking I should do the upper/lower gt40 intake , trick flow heads, trick flow cam, LTs, H-Pipe w/ cats(i have to pass echeck), some kind of cat back exhaust, and I was going to get a rebuild kit too while it is out of the car. Anything else that I should be doing while it is out? All the bolt ons and stuff I can do later.
My expectations for this car is to keep it NA and I want to be able to get this thing running at least 12s. I want to get in the 300+hp range NA.

All help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[phillipstheman1]

you will probley need more then that to get into the 12's its not as easy as throwing trick flow junk on.... as far as your swap you should really find a donor car.. you need pretty much everything from wireing to computer to injectors... personally id sell the sucks banger buy a gt.. if you dont want to you should shop for a parts/ donor car that away you have everything there ive got one id sell for 450 complete car you might be able to get by cheaper with winging it and buying parts as you go but it will take alot longer... i have an engine too thats recent rebuild tfs1 cam

 

[bmac50]

What about the transmission? Ford put what they needed into cars and that means your T5 is too weak to stand abuse with a V8. The V8 is heavier so that means work on the front end.

By the time you piece it you'll have more money spend that if you sold yours and paid a fair price for a GT.

 

[final5-0]

I know this is gonna come off as me pee peeing in your Cheerios

That is a L O T to expect from your daily driver

A project like that can be tough when it is your dd
due to time constraints

Little things usually crop up rendering your car inoperative

A 300+ rwhp NA combo is not gonna be all that great of a dd :Word:

Grady

 

[reddy351]

I see that there is a lot of trepidation from the "first responders" in this thread. I have to agree with it. There is a serious danger, when trying to accomplish an engine swap such as this. When your car has been sitting for a while, waiting for some little problem to be overcome, it is very easy to move on to another project and forget about it. This is why a lot of Mustangs, Camaro's and such are sitting in someones backyard with various parts missing, forgotten forever by the person that began the project. I've done it. Prolly most guys here, have done it.

A couple of recommendations:

1) Get a GT to begin with and spend your effort/$$$ on upgrades.
2) Keep the Sixer and get a GT. Build the GT and drive the Sixer.
3) Supercharge the 3.8. (May still not necessarily reach your goals, but cheapest in the long run.)

If you are in a position to only buy/keep one car and you MUST keep the Sixer, I would SC it using parts from a 1989-1993(?) Thunderbird Super Coupe. The parts are available, in the JY/Ebay and can be amassed while you drive the car. Benefits: You can collect the parts at your leisure, you keep your OE computer/wiring and fuel systems (upgraded, of course) and you get better use of your time effort and money. Plus, you'll have a truly cool, quick and "one of a kind" car.

PS--the T5's they used behind the 3.8's are the same as the ones they use behind the 5.0's.

Just my thoughts....

 

[Kirko]

Can you please not post a reply if you are not going to help me on what I am asking.

reddy, I can't afford to pay for a v8 and a v6. Just one or the other. There isn't a 94/95 GT around me that is in decent shape and a reasonable price. I have been looking for months. I was thinking about getting a supercharger/turbo for my six but I don't know much about blowers because I have never had one in any of my cars and I would rather have an NA car. I am not that big of a fan of blowers. Yes my six might have a blower and be faster than some of the NA cars but if I was going to face another guy with a blower I would lose because I am not going to be getting no 500+hp with mine. Thus building the sixer with a blower is pretty much dumb. Why put money into my 3.8 when I can get a 5.0 and it will be twice as fast.

final5-0, I have more cars than just my mustang to drive. I just like to drive the mustang everyday because it I like to drive it. Why wouldn't it be a very good DD? I know a bunch of people who drive theirs around.

 

[Chythar]

Now now, no need to get upset. The other members here ARE trying to help you. What they are saying is, swapping a 5.0 into a 3.8 is a lot of work. It's more expensive and more difficult to do than the three options that reddy listed.

There isn't a master list of what parts you need and step-by-step instructions. Sorry dude, life just ain't that easy. Unless you are an experienced mechanic AND have all the tools you will need, doing an engine swap will not be easy. It's not impossible, but you will be learning while you do the swap. And learning ALWAYS adds a lot of time to a project.

Our experience working on our Mustangs tells us that you WILL make mistakes doing this engine swap. We all have made many mistakes working on our cars, so it's not just you. All it takes is one forgotten connection, and your daily driver isn't running.

An engine swap might seem like it's cheaper, if you can get all the parts you need. Did you budget for all the tools you'll need? I can guarantee you, unless you do a lot of work on cars you will need to buy more tools. And you'll tend to find out you need a tool when you're right in the middle of something and none of your tools will work. It's happened to all of us WAY too often.

You save money on an engine swap by doing all the labor yourself. Once again, if you were very experienced with swapping engines, and you had all the tools you needed AND nothing went wrong, the swap could probably be done in a weekend. But that's a lot of IF's.

It's very likely that if you try this swap, you'll get really frustrated with it. You'll stop working on the swap and leave your Mustang in pieces. We're just trying to save you a major headache.

To answer some of your questions:
Your T5 won't hold up to the 5.0's torque. The 3.8 and 5.0 T5's are very similar, but the 5.0 is obviously stronger. If you insist on reusing the 3.8 T5, you'll need a new bellhousing for the 5.0.

The 7.5 rear end will hold up for a while, longer than the 3.8 T5 will. But it won't last forever.

You'll need 5.0 motor mounts. The 3.8's won't bolt to the engine.

The fuel lines and fuel pump are the same. The fuel rail on the engine is different, but that will come with the 5.0 motor.

If you get an instrument cluster from a 5.0, it'll plug into the same place as the 3.8's. You can reuse the 3.8's cluster, but the speedometer and tachometer won't read the right speed/rpm.

You'll need the complete exhaust system from a GT. This includes the exhaust hangers, because the V6 only has enough for one pipe.

You'll need the 5.0's smog equipment, if your state has emission testing.

This is only a partial list. Only a junkyard will have a lot of the small brackets and hangers that you will need to do this swap right, you can't order them from anywhere. This is why it's best to do a swap from a wrecked GT, so you have all these parts handy.

Good luck, you will need it.

 

[reddy351]

Can you please not post a reply if you are not going to help me on what I am asking..

I hope that wasn't for me. I am trying to help.

reddy, I can't afford to pay for a v8 and a v6. Just one or the other. There isn't a 94/95 GT around me that is in decent shape and a reasonable price. I have been looking for months. I was thinking about getting a supercharger/turbo for my six but I don't know much about blowers because I have never had one in any of my cars and I would rather have an NA car. I am not that big of a fan of blowers. Yes my six might have a blower and be faster than some of the NA cars but if I was going to face another guy with a blower I would lose because I am not going to be getting no 500+hp with mine. Thus building the sixer with a blower is pretty much dumb. Why put money into my 3.8 when I can get a 5.0 and it will be twice as fast..

You aren't going to have 500+hp with an N/A 5.0, either. You said you'd like 300hp. You would be able to do that with a SC 3.8. Nobody needs to know what you've got under the hood, unless you want to tell them.

I'm (several of us are) trying to save your Mustang from the "Forgotten Projects" pile that even I've added to. (yes, I've started/done projects that ended up losing their luster, before they were completed.) I'm trying to tell you that the odds of completing the project that you mentioned are "slim and none". You may very well be the one guy that finishes it. It's just that the odds are against that.

 

[phillipstheman1]

I have a forgotten project in my back yard a half ton 454 sits in pieces

 

[Roush4Life]

ouch! sorry bout your luck phillipstheman!!!

 

[SorsCode]

Actually to put the V8 in its a direct swap basically.. I do have a instructions on my site with a master List. I've helped people do it. Some have actually made money on it. Rightfully as long as you can get a complete motor 94/95 from Pan to Intake you got the biggest part. Now for the front suspension is the same between the V6 and V8. Don't let them discourage you about the whole swap.. I might even have some stuff laying around from a donor car you need. What tranny do you have now? T5? if so All you need is a 94/95 Bellhousing for a V8 and your tranny will be fine. the V6 and V8 trannies are the same even though I have seen info stating there is a rating difference. Wiring: all you need is the Computer, Computer Harness, Injector Harness, Battery Harness, Tranny Harness (I can adapt), and Alt Harness (or extend the current harness). Once you swap those harnesses and put the engine in all you have to do is connect your fuel and exhaust and little odd and end pieces and your set. The Lower radiator hose is the same upper is different. I'm not going thru everything but I can do the swap in 6 hours from start to finish. Have any questions either come to my site and post or I'll try to keep and eye over here.

Danny

 

[94-302-vert]

Won't he need the 94/95 front acessories and brackets too? I know it is implied but I am trying to make sure it is stated.


.Not sure where you are but you can try car-part.com to look for one that is in a JY for some if not all of the parts...

 

[WHITE94COBRA]

Ahhhh Grady I gotta poo poo on your parade, I'm well over 300 hp and can easily be a DD. Matter a fact it is my DD right now. Now if gas prices would only go down....

I agree with a few others though, the swap will end up costing more, and ironing the bugs out of a new setup is a bit*h.

However dont get discouraged, many have done the swap, and it has worked out for em.

Also dont forget that little 7.5 rear end, it will hold up for a while, but a few good clutch drops will have it screaming like a virgin in a gang bang.

I know this is gonna come off as me pee peeing in your Cheerios

That is a L O T to expect from your daily driver

A project like that can be tough when it is your dd
due to time constraints

Little things usually crop up rendering your car inoperative

A 300+ rwhp NA combo is not gonna be all that great of a dd :Word:

Grady

 

[Pokageek]

Grady is usually right...but 300rwhp (well close) was my daily driver. (only because I wanted to drive it ever day - it was really a 3rd car).

 

[final5-0]

OK Guys

The dd thing is really a matter of perspective ... as I see it

I could drive my 95 daily ... if I wanted to :Word:

Not being argumentative or anything
but
I said it would not be ... all that great ... of a dd

Here is my perspective which is why I feel that way

The cam lope draws too much attention
Around town gas mileage is not all that great
and
The real biggie for me ... I don't wanna rack up the miles on it

I mean to find another ... low mileage ... really clean ... t-5 ... 94-95
Well its starting to be a tough thing to try and do

I don't have any drivability issues ... not one :Word:

Thats not anything I would be concerned about

So ... if the things I don't like about driving my 95 Daily don't bother
any of you guys ... then ... you just got a different perspective

I just don't want A N Y project car I might have to be a dd

Its all cool and I didn't mean to mislead anyone

btw ... I almost forgot about something he said in his original post

This guy said he wanted to ... stay NA ... with 300+ hp
and run 12's

Your combo and his ... they're not an apples to apples comparison IMHO
since you use juice

Grady

 

[WHITE94COBRA]

You know whats really funny, I have never used my juice.... lol, I got it tuned for it and thats the first and so far last time it has been used. It's really rather useless to me. I really need to upload a soundbite, you would never think my cam is as aggressive as it is by the way it idles.
Kirko not trying to hijack your thread. Sorry.

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i143.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/THEMIXR/cb5e95ad.flv"></embed>

 

[final5-0]

I feel I should have been more clear about one thing Kirko said

If talking about rwhp and I feel one should
if
The goal is to run 12's
then
A 300+ combo is gonna be more aggressive than typical combos :Word:

Sure ... you could .........
strip out a bunch of stuff to save weight
do a drag suspension
full slicks
and
other things to go 12's with less rwhp

I don't see Kirko as wanting that kind of car by what he said

IMHO ... since we are talking NA ......
The cam is gonna be pretty aggressive
and
Even with a sharp tune ... it is gonna lope big time
and
You may have to deal with some drivability issues

btw ... I'm talking closer to 350rwhp than 300rwhp

So that is another reason I said a combo like that is gonna not
be all that great for a daily driver

Grady

 

[WHITE94COBRA]

I am closer to the 350 hp N/A mark, but I do have slightly more displacement.... lol.