COLD AIR OR EXHAUST
- Thread starter silvergt07
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lightblade
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- Aug 7, 2004
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No offense but you've not done much research have you? Most decent CAI kits are giving some very nice HP #'s. I've been reading up on, talking to several shops, vendors etc., and the FIRST mod they all suggest is to get this car breathing with a good intake.
Of course, most every CAI kit requires a tune.
I have done a lot of research and I took a good look at the car as well as test fitted a CAI. I suggest you do the same...
My gains in the 1/4 with just a tune are as good if not better than those that have a CAI and a tune. Same track same day, I tested what the car did on the stock calibration, what the car did with the 87 tune and what it did with a 91 tune. In total, I made 9 passes in the 1/4 that day testing my SCT X-Cal 2. The numbers in the 1/4 don't lie, 5 MPH and .5 faster in the 1/4. That tells me that the gains being seen is the tune, not the CAI.
What does a CAI gain on it's own without a tune? Do you know why a tune is required? I know. A little info for you. Go look where your CAI is getting it's air. It is from a little hole, the exact same spot that the factory air-box is getting it's air from. So putting the air filter from a CAI in the exact same spot as the factory one is not doing a damn thing and that is a fact.
I have said it before and I will say it again. The only CAI worth looking at is thw WMS as it is the only one that really changes where it gets it air from. The rest are a waste of money.
My gains in the 1/4 with just a tune are as good if not better than those that have a CAI and a tune. Same track same day, I tested what the car did on the stock calibration, what the car did with the 87 tune and what it did with a 91 tune. In total, I made 9 passes in the 1/4 that day testing my SCT X-Cal 2. The numbers in the 1/4 don't lie, 5 MPH and .5 faster in the 1/4. That tells me that the gains being seen is the tune, not the CAI.
What does a CAI gain on it's own without a tune? Do you know why a tune is required? I know. A little info for you. Go look where your CAI is getting it's air. It is from a little hole, the exact same spot that the factory air-box is getting it's air from. So putting the air filter from a CAI in the exact same spot as the factory one is not doing a damn thing and that is a fact.
I have said it before and I will say it again. The only CAI worth looking at is thw WMS as it is the only one that really changes where it gets it air from. The rest are a waste of money.
kooldawg6
mine works really well and can take a fair amount
CAI/tune then O/R X or H with factory mufflers(put some nicer tips on). That will come in well under $1K and get you moving and sounding good as well
Save the few hundred on axle backs and put it towards swapping in some 4.10s!!!!!
Save the few hundred on axle backs and put it towards swapping in some 4.10s!!!!!Get your car dyno'd mang. Track conditions always change so unless you swapped the CAI kit on and off that very same night @ the track your #'s can't justify what you're saying.
Just b/c the filter is pulling the air from the same spot doesn't change the fact that an aftermarket CAI is a lot less restrictive than the stock intake. You're getting more airflow into the intake. You don't need to change the location.
Seeing as I'll be going back to DiabloSport for some tuning the day I get the intake, I'll be sure to have my Dyno #'s posted with/without a CAI kit next time I'm @ DiabloSport.
I never ran a CAI on my car, I test fitted a C&L racer kit on my car. I ran a mail-order SCT X-Cal 2 on my car on the same night. My gains were .5 faster ET and 5 MPH with just a tune. That is as good or better than what other people are getting with tunes and CAI's. What I am saying is my numbers are as good as others that are posting their 1/4 times before and after their CAI/tune install.
I am well aware that track conditions change and that is why when I did my test it was on the same evening as I pointed out earlier. In fact all 8 passes were done within 1 hour and 4 minutes. To further address this, the first 2 passes were on the stock calibration, the last 2 were on the stock calibration, the 4 middle passes had 2 passes on the 87 octane tune on my X-Cal 2, 2 passes were on the 91 octane tune. Seems to me that this is a very fair way to determine how much a part gained.
I am also not new to modifying cars. Currently, my other car is a 1996 Ford Thunderbird that is making over 330 RWHP normally aspirated( N/A ) from a Ford SOHC 2V Modular V8. That car has had many different combinations. It didn't get to it's current configuration without a lot of experimentation and research. It's current configuration is street legal( full catted exhaust ), through a 4R70W automatic, an IRS and is using the 01 - 04 Ford Mustang GT plastic intake manifold. Try to find somebody else making that kind of power N/A and through an auto transmission car and using the plastic PI intake. You will be hard pressed to find someone.
That car's factory airbox is very similar to that of the 05 Mustangs, the exception is that they are on the opposite side of the engine.
That car's air induction consists of:
Removed Air Silencer, Factory Air box and Filter, 80mm 02 Mustang GT MAF, 04 Mustang GT Intake Tube, 75mm BBK Throttle Body, C&L Intake Plenum.
This is a pic of my 96 Thunderbird's engine bay. It is not a recent pic, but is of it's current configuration.
For me, the closest 1/4 mile track is 2.5 hours away. The closest dyno to me is 2.75 hours away. For me to run my car at the track costs me $80.00. Breaking that down is $25.00 to race my car, $5.00 to enter my pit vehicle and driver, $50.00 total for fuel to and from the track. The dyno shop would cost me $100.00/hour plus about $40.00 worth of fuel, that is a minimum of $140.00. It can almost go to the track twice for the cost of the dyno.
I use the Dyno as a tool, but I don't use it as a measure of gains/losses. The Dyno's near me cannot SAE correct their numbers and I do not feel like doing a dyno run in a controlled environment. What I do to measure gains/losses is 1/4 mile passes. For my own use, I correct my 1/4 mile passes to sea-level as well as weather correct them. That way if I can't run parts on the same day, I do have a way of measuring how they helped.
So let's look at a few things now regarding better breathing air filters and such. The stock air filter for a 2005+ Mustang flows about 700 CFM. The 4.6 SOHC 3V head flows 244 CFM on the intake side. I haven't researched the intake manifold air flow on the 05+ Mustangs but it is not important for this.
You have an air filter flowing 700 CFM stock, the heads on the engine flow 244. The air filter is supplying far more air than the heads can use, therefore the air filter is not a restriction. Adding an air filter that flows 1000 CFM is not going to give you more power as it is not addressing a restriction seen.
I have seen in a controlled environment what a K&N Filter is worth on a 650 RWHP Supercharged 4.6L 2V mustang. The K&N Filter was worth 1.2 RWHP. If it worth hardly anything on a heavily modified Super Charged car, I wonder what it would be worth on a fairly close to stock N/A Mustang. That is a tough one to figure out. That is strike one against a CAI.
Next up, some CAI's have metal tubing between the MAF and throtte body( TB ). Metal attracts heat. Anything that the CAI may have gained is now washed away due to the heat transfer of the metal to the air. ( Hot air = less horse power ) CAI's that have plastic or rubber tubing or ones that reuse the stock tubing are again not addressing any restriction issue. Strike two.
The idea of CAI's is to attract cold outside air and transfer it to the TB. The stock airbox is grabbing air from a hole about the size of a dime. Most of the CAI kits available also try to draw air from that same tiny hole. The exception of the available CAI's is the WMS kit. There is Strike three, but I am not done yet.
Next up is the MAF transfer function. The reason CAI's require tunes is that they change the MAF's transfer function. Most CAI's increase the sampling tube size or they increased the tubing size or they changed the MAF housing. Any one of these things can change the MAF transfer function. The car's computer calculates the amount of fuel off of the MAF transfer function. If the transfer function has changed and the car's computer doesn't know that, you are getting the incorrect amount of fuel for the amount of air that is actually there. That is why a tune is required for most CAI's, to correct the MAF transfer function.
Tunes do more than just correct MAF transfer functions. They can lean out A/F mixture to increase Horsepower. They can bump the timing and allow you to run a higher octane fuel and see more Horsepower, etc. This is why most of, if not all of the gains between CAI's and tuners are done by the tuner.
Now for a dyno to be done correctly it must be in a controlled environment to really find how much parts gain. What I mean by this is that every thing is the same. The engine oil temperature, engine oil pressure, the coolant temperature, transmission oil temperature, transmission oil pressure, differential oil temperature, tire air pressure, tire air temperature, etc. are the same for all dyno runs. To also be correct you need to ensure that you SAE correct your dyno numbers.
I am not out to be a prick, but if you do not include this info in your post, how do we know that perhaps the change in oil temperatures are not the cause for an increase/decrease in the numbers. You may even Baseline your parts, by running stock at the beginning and end but how do we know that the middle runs the car was not at it's best/worst efficiency during those runs. That is why that is important to do a Dyno run in a controlled environment and one of the reasons dyno numbers can be manipulated. A car with cold fluids will make less power than a car with warmed up fluids.
Well I guess I should bow to your experience and back down after that 2 page essay.
But hey, I suppose the tens of thousands of people who buy CAI kits on their car have no clue what they're talking about. Go figure.
You know what though a good bunch of them have no clue what they are talking about.
How many of those tens of thousands researched their purchase? How many bought into what a vendor says? The fact that a vendor can sell $600.00 worth of parts instead of $350.00 has nothing to do with it? How many believed what they read in magazines? Do you want me to go on?
The fact of the matter is, I saw as good if not better than those that have a CAI and tune. I did it with just a tune. I am not out selling parts/services. I shared what I saw and know. I really don't care if people agree with me or not. I really don't care how people spend their money either but if you are going to argue with me and tell me I am wrong or I didn't do any research, you better be able to back those claims up.
Like I said earlier, only one CAI has the potential to work as it says and that is the WMS kit. The reason, it moves the airfilter to the front of the car and actually pulls in cold air. There are things I don't like about the WMS kit or it would be on my car.
Go be the first to dyno test a CAI to see if it gains anything on a tuned car, but I am telling you right now that it better be controlled environment because I will questioning every aspect from air pressure to oil temperatures on it. If you can't answer my questions, then your numbers you post will be bogus. I will tell you that right now.
