EFI engine swap
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1966ponyguy
New Member
sbf engines
Dimensionally yes, there are some differences (performance wise) in the heads, stock cams, ect. but, someone chime in if I'm wrong, but most 260, and all 289 / 302 / 5.0 parts are interchangeable. But, with that said, it's important to match things up correctly, i.e. 5.0 roller cam with correct dist gear, bore sizes on pistons, ect.
Dimensionally yes, there are some differences (performance wise) in the heads, stock cams, ect. but, someone chime in if I'm wrong, but most 260, and all 289 / 302 / 5.0 parts are interchangeable. But, with that said, it's important to match things up correctly, i.e. 5.0 roller cam with correct dist gear, bore sizes on pistons, ect.
289/302/5.0 all use the same piston with minor differences dealing with the valve reliefs.
the intakes on all the cars are the same, but on the crown vic it faces the opposite direction of the mustangs. the truck uses a different upper and lower intake, though they can be used on the cars hood clearance becomes an issue. as i recall tfs made up new upper intakes to bolt to the truck lower intake for better airflow into the stock 5.0 engine.
the cam in the truck and the crown vic are teh same, but the mustang cam is different in that it has a higher lift, a bit more duration, and a different firing order. get the processor that matches the cam, you cant just change the firing order of the injectors.
and good advice on getting the right dist gear to match the cam, stell for the roller cam, and cast iron for the other cams.
the intakes on all the cars are the same, but on the crown vic it faces the opposite direction of the mustangs. the truck uses a different upper and lower intake, though they can be used on the cars hood clearance becomes an issue. as i recall tfs made up new upper intakes to bolt to the truck lower intake for better airflow into the stock 5.0 engine.
the cam in the truck and the crown vic are teh same, but the mustang cam is different in that it has a higher lift, a bit more duration, and a different firing order. get the processor that matches the cam, you cant just change the firing order of the injectors.
and good advice on getting the right dist gear to match the cam, stell for the roller cam, and cast iron for the other cams.
Tubo(2-bo)
Member
Check out JamesW's site, http://www.midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/Engine.htm hes done an excilent job of not only documenting his install, but also has a fine library of very relative links.
I also reccommend http://fordfuelinjection.com/ as a source for DIY EFI install(use the power distribution circut) or to have a harness built, Ryan can be a little hard to get ahold of somtime, but worth the effort.
I also reccommend http://fordfuelinjection.com/ as a source for DIY EFI install(use the power distribution circut) or to have a harness built, Ryan can be a little hard to get ahold of somtime, but worth the effort.
I've been up and close to JamesW's 65 restomod as he showed it at the MOCA show on August 4th. Yes, Jimmie has done a remarkable job of making a perfectly good classic 1965 fastback into an EFI car that should never have been done in the first place. He won a trophy that he shared as the 2nd place winner in the modified entry section. He really does have a great modified car, but it is no longer a classic Mustang.
Hack
15 Year Member
You could say they are the same, but there are many many details that are different.
The old 302s and non-HO later 302s have a different firing order (hence different cams).
The newer 302s have different balance weight (50 vs. 28) than the old ones, which changes the balancer and flywheel/flexplate.
The location of the fuel pump and oil dipstick varies, which changes the timing cover and oil pan as well as the block.
The late roller cam blocks are different than the early blocks - they have added features for roller lifters. If you want a roller cam the new blocks are much cheaper and easier to start from.
The heads are different - the way the rockers mount is not the same on early vs. later 302s.
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more things I didn't think of.
The old 302s and non-HO later 302s have a different firing order (hence different cams).
The newer 302s have different balance weight (50 vs. 28) than the old ones, which changes the balancer and flywheel/flexplate.
The location of the fuel pump and oil dipstick varies, which changes the timing cover and oil pan as well as the block.
The late roller cam blocks are different than the early blocks - they have added features for roller lifters. If you want a roller cam the new blocks are much cheaper and easier to start from.
The heads are different - the way the rockers mount is not the same on early vs. later 302s.
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more things I didn't think of.
Tubo(2-bo)
Member
Glen this attitude dident work at http://www.mustangforums.com/ and it wont make you any friends here. Let it go, and concentrate on sharing solid information. Thats what this forum is about. Not bickering over your opinion, of installing EFI is butchering a classic.
CraigMBA
New Member
Rusty67
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Do a search on this forum and you will find a lot of information. Something you might want to consider is the fact that you will need to add an additional fuel line for the return and you will need to run an electric fuel pump.
As far as the actual motors there are some differences as have been mentioned but if you want to just throw a carbed intake on a 5.0 roller motor and have your flywheel/flex plate reballance then you can have yourself a roller motor with a serpentine setup (I'm a fan of the serpentine) with really no more work then swaping the motor and a few parts such as the timing cover/oil pan.
If you want to go with the full EFI setup it may be better to buy yourself a donor car that runs with no check engine light. That way you literally have EVERYTHING you will need to make it work, like the O2 sensors, MAF, MAP and other items as well (and lets not forget the wiring/ECU).
As far as the actual motors there are some differences as have been mentioned but if you want to just throw a carbed intake on a 5.0 roller motor and have your flywheel/flex plate reballance then you can have yourself a roller motor with a serpentine setup (I'm a fan of the serpentine) with really no more work then swaping the motor and a few parts such as the timing cover/oil pan.
If you want to go with the full EFI setup it may be better to buy yourself a donor car that runs with no check engine light. That way you literally have EVERYTHING you will need to make it work, like the O2 sensors, MAF, MAP and other items as well (and lets not forget the wiring/ECU).
Hack
15 Year Member
Good point, and an EFI system typically wants either a baffle in the tank or two pumps with a reservoir outside the tank. The carb has a float bowl with a reserve of fuel - the EFI needs a similar reservoir. The details really do add up.
how do you figure the car is no longer a classic mustang? it is somehow now an 85 model? sorry but that attitude doesnt cut it as the others have stated. i have no problem with a purist when it comes to restoration of their own car, but when you try to tell someone else how they should build their car, that crosses the line. saying that jamesw's car is no longer a 65 mustang, is like saying that a 32 ford, built from an original body and frame, is no longer a 32 ford just because someone installed a late model drivetrain. i would also be willing to bet that your classic mustang, while a quality restoration, has also seen modern improvements, be they just the materials used in maintenance items. does that mean your classic is no longer a classic? nope.
I usually wouldnt say this- but I think you need to leave with an attitude like that.
Hack
15 Year Member
I usually wouldnt say this- but I think you need to leave with an attitude like that.
Normally I'd stay out of this topic, but I strongly agree that there's no place for that sort of crap here.
Rusty67
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
This is a classic Mustang discussion forum. I have every right to express my opinion on any restoration or modification subject just as all of you do. This classic Mustang forum does not say that it is only for restomod guys to discuss how to modify their classic Mustangs. Move over restomod guys. This forum is going to change from a complete restomod forum to a complete classic Mustang forum.
Tubo(2-bo)
Member
:OT:
This is a tech forum, that means information directly relating to the question asked.
Opinions are to be discused in the companion talk forum here. Start a thread there & you'll get plenty of discussion. You need to stop mudding up a tech thread with your opinions.
Glen you just dont get it, your fixin to get run out of another forum, and you have no one to blame but your self.:ZipIt:
Here, Soaring Post your opinions here http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=7084721#post7084721
My appologies to the Stangnet Forum members, I will not respond to Soaring in the Tech area any more.
I'm new here and to tell the truth the only reason I finally registered is because I had to voice my opinion regarding the above quoted post. It seems that the issue from mustangforums.com has moved over here. This issue was the reason I stopped posting on the other forum as did many other long time members. One, who had a real hard time with this issue, came back and opened her post with "I hear it's safe to post again". I really got tired of constantly hearing that a classic Mustang was no longer a classic Mustang if you added something like EFI or a turbo, etc. It begged the question, if it's no longer a classic Mustang, what is it, a classic Camaro? Anytime anyone posted regarding adding EFI, etc., it invariably ended up in a long, drawn out argument over a couple of days. This was all due to one man's definition of "Classic Mustang". I have no problem with a person expressing their opinion, but they try to push it on someone else or put another classic owner down for the way they want to build their car, then I have a big problem. I really hope it gets worked out, you guys have a nice slant on things.
PS - I fully agree with the previous posts regarding this subject. Especially the one about bad information.
I will continue to post my opinions on tech questions here where it belongs. Learn to spell. What have you contributed to the site other than your opinions?
jcode68
Active Member
Opinions are one thing, but there is no room for religion in this forum. The tone and delivery of your posts project arrogance and not a mutual respect for others. If your goal is to come in and piss everyone off that doesn’t share your opinion, then you are doing a great job.
