My $2000 Ignition - I need help!

[woodsnake]

Did you try a voltage drop test to see where you are losing your current? That is usually a lot cheaper than just replacing parts.....

 

[wahoo23]

Here's where I'm at on this:

I still have two problems:
1) I turn the key and...nothing. I hotwire by connecting both sides of the solenoid and it turns over. Both the solenoid and starter are now new. The problem seems like it's with the key / ignition itself. Wiring?

2) When I turn the car over, it still fails to start. I have verified that at TDC, the dizzy points to wire #1.

Anyone have any C4?

 

[bnickel]

when you jump it across the solenoid do you have the key in the run position? it seems as though you may just have a bad ignition switch to me. if it won't turn over using the key but will by jumping across the solenoid that's a very good indication that ign. switch is bad. just make sure the hey is in the run postition when you do it and the car should start.

 

[Tim65GT]

here is a pic of the basics you need for start/ignition. Get a meter and start checking.

 

[wahoo23]

Now, starter, solenoid and ignition switch are all new. Car now turns over but still does not start. Do I need to start messing with the carb, even though Holley's instructions claim that there should be no adjustment necessary?

 

[67coupestang]

Yes, per MSD's instructions, I pulled the lead wire from the coil of at the dizzy, and placed it ~1/2" from ground. I then turned on the ignition and shorted the two wires on the lead from box to dizzy. There was spark present.

?? did you check spark while cranking? i had a bronco for a while that checked out fine, 12v at the coil while sitting, but dropped when the engine was cranking causing ignition failure and a no fire. for a while i ran the coil off a relay tied directly to the battery, later i found that a new, heavier wire from the switch to the coil was all it needed. somewhere i remember reading that for put a resistor in the stock wire because the older coils liked 9v? took me for ever to find that one out, might be worth a look if you haven't

 

[zookeeper]

Are you SURE there's gas squirting from the carb? Remove the air cleaner and look down the carb bores to make SURE you see gas squirting into the engine when you work the throttle. Also, check the spark at the plug by removing a plug and holding it against a header bolt or some other bare metal on the engine while someone cranks the engine over. IF you have gas, and IF you have spark at the plug, and IF the distributer is timed correctly, it WILL start, no ifs ands or buts about it. One of those three elements is missing.

 

[wahoo23]

?? did you check spark while cranking? i had a bronco for a while that checked out fine, 12v at the coil while sitting, but dropped when the engine was cranking causing ignition failure and a no fire. for a while i ran the coil off a relay tied directly to the battery, later i found that a new, heavier wire from the switch to the coil was all it needed. somewhere i remember reading that for put a resistor in the stock wire because the older coils liked 9v? took me for ever to find that one out, might be worth a look if you haven't

The coil is wired from the MSD ignition box, and the ignition box is wired to the battery, so I assume that a voltage drop at the coil can't be the problem. I will throw a meter on it when I get home...Thanks!

 

[GNGREN]

Are you sure your are getting spark? Pull a plug and ground it to the block while somebody turns the ignition. Or hot wire it and do it at the solinoid. (I do it on my points ignition don't know if it would hurt the electronic MSD!!) Have you moved the dist. around while cranking to see if it will even try to fire?

Also, check the spark at the plug by removing a plug and holding it against a header bolt or some other bare metal on the engine while someone cranks the engine over.

I know you said that the msd box had power, but again is it at the plug while cranking? zookeeper hit the nail on the head you need spark and fuel and it should try to start. If you have spark at a "spark-plug" then put it back in and try moving the distributer while cranking to see if it will fire.

 

[jcode68]

The coil is wired from the MSD ignition box, and the ignition box is wired to the battery, so I assume that a voltage drop at the coil can't be the problem. I will throw a meter on it when I get home...Thanks!

The MSD box has to get switched 12 volts, usually you will tap into the ignition switch. A lot of guys use the old wire that runs to the coil for this, but as someone else pointed out, these wires carry a resistance from the factory preventing a full 12 volts. You should measure the voltage on the wire you are using and confirm you are getting at least 12 volts or the same amount as straight off the battery. Also, look in your MSD instructions, there is an easy way to test if you are getting spark to the coil. Installed one of these in a firends 67 last weekend, so this is all still fresh in my mind.

 

[wahoo23]

The MSD box has to get switched 12 volts, usually you will tap into the ignition switch. A lot of guys use the old wire that runs to the coil for this, but as someone else pointed out, these wires carry a resistance from the factory preventing a full 12 volts. You should measure the voltage on the wire you are using and confirm you are getting at least 12 volts or the same amount as straight off the battery. Also, look in your MSD instructions, there is an easy way to test if you are getting spark to the coil. Installed one of these in a firends 67 last weekend, so this is all still fresh in my mind.

CAR STARTED TODAY after replacing wires!!! Wooohoooo!! It turns out that I wasn't getting spark at the plug with the old wires. HOWEVER, I can only get it started by jumping the solenoid. When I crank at the key, it does not start. I suspect that I need to install a new switched lead from the ignition switch, replacing the stock resistance wire...

 

[BarnStang]

THe resistance wire is only in circuit in the "RUN" position of the switch. THe ign gets power from the right hand small post on the solinoid in the start pos. FUll 12v in start, curent limited in run. Look for the wire there at the solinoid first. It may not be attached.

 

[wahoo23]

THe resistance wire is only in circuit in the "RUN" position of the switch. THe ign gets power from the right hand small post on the solinoid in the start pos. FUll 12v in start, curent limited in run. Look for the wire there at the solinoid first. It may not be attached.

The car turns over with the ignition, so the wire you speak of must be connected, right? My thought is that the wire I've connected the ignition box to is hot in the run position, and not the start position, which would explain why it starts by jumping the solenoid. I think.

 

[BarnStang]

OK, am really having trouble with pictures. THought I had EVERYTHING on photobucket but the wiring folder is empty, others are .tif, and the rest are too big, and the laptop has trial Office 2007 which expired...geeze. Try to visualize this. THe coil + post gets fed from two places. In the RUN switch pos, it comes from the ign switchvia a pink resister wire, in the start pos, itcomes from the brown wire on the second (right hand) small post on the solinoid. THese two wires are connected and feed the same place, the ign switch is where the split is made. If the brown wire is NOT conected, the coil will not get power when the switch is in the start position.
If you are putting the switch in the RUN position, and jumping the starter, and the car starts, the pink wire is good from the switch to the coil. If you turn the switch to the start pos, and the starter cranks the engine, but won't start, the coil is not getting power. Youcan prove this by hot wiring the car. run a jumper from the battery pos term to the coil + term, try to start the car with the key. If it starts, the coil is not getting power from the brown wire at the coil.

Oh wow! the attachment showed up! Look at the brown wire from the soliniod and follow it back. Wire 262 brown becomes16B which is the ign wire Red w/ greenstrip

 

[wahoo23]

OK, am really having trouble with pictures. THought I had EVERYTHING on photobucket but the wiring folder is empty, others are .tif, and the rest are too big, and the laptop has trial Office 2007 which expired...geeze. Try to visualize this. THe coil + post gets fed from two places. In the RUN switch pos, it comes from the ign switchvia a pink resister wire, in the start pos, itcomes from the brown wire on the second (right hand) small post on the solinoid. THese two wires are connected and feed the same place, the ign switch is where the split is made. If the brown wire is NOT conected, the coil will not get power when the switch is in the start position.
If you are putting the switch in the RUN position, and jumping the starter, and the car starts, the pink wire is good from the switch to the coil. If you turn the switch to the start pos, and the starter cranks the engine, but won't start, the coil is not getting power. Youcan prove this by hot wiring the car. run a jumper from the battery pos term to the coil + term, try to start the car with the key. If it starts, the coil is not getting power from the brown wire at the coil.

Oh wow! the attachment showed up! Look at the brown wire from the soliniod and follow it back. Wire 262 brown becomes16B which is the ign wire Red w/ greenstrip

Great info! So should I split either the brown wire or the red-green stripe wire and run it to the + post of the coil? Everything looks connected (brown at the solenoid). I think it's odd that MSD leaves this part out of their instructions. Should I have two wires running to the + post of the coil?

How about this - there is one red wire running from the MSD ignition box to the pink ingition wire. What woud happen if I connected that wire to the red-green stripe wire also? It would basicaly be supplying 12v to the coil in either the run or start position. Hypothetically, should that work?

Either way, it sounds like an easy fix - which direction should I persue?

Thanks!

 

[jcode68]

Your only connections to the coil come from the MSD box. As I recall, the orange wire connects to the + terminal, I forget the other coler wire, but it is paired with the orange wire. Check your instructions. Then, connect the small red wire from the MSD box to the red wire with green stripe. This should put you in good shape. Let us know how you make out.
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[wahoo23]

Your only connections to the coil come from the MSD box. As I recall, the orange wire connects to the + terminal, I forget the other coler wire, but it is paired with the orange wire. Check your instructions. Then, connect the small red wire from the MSD box to the red wire with green stripe. This should put you in good shape. Let us know how you make out.
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So the coil gets power from the orange wire when the ignition is in the run position, and from the red wire (red-green stripe) when the ignition is in the start position?

 

[BarnStang]

You should not have to split anything. I went back and reread the thread. What MSD box are you running?
You say you have a SWITCHED 12v going to the MSD box. Tell us EXACTLY how you did this?

OK, I forgot about the MSD box earlier. All that is out the window. Nether of the wires matter at all. Referencing a MSD 6AL, ALL the orignal wires are removed from the coil. THe MSD Orange wire goes to the + coil post, the MSD Black goes to the coil - post. As long as you have SWITCHED 12v to the MSD Red wire in RUN position AND in the START postion of the ign switch, you should have no problems. If the car will not start with the key, you may not have switched 12v going to the MSD Red wire in the Start pos of the ign switch. Refer to you MSD directions exclusivly. Disregard all the BS I wrote. Sorry.

 

[BarnStang]

I type too slow...
No, wih the MSD system, the coil gets power from the MSD box through the Orange wire in start AND run. The MSD box gets switched power from the switch 12v wire. THis "turns on" the MSD box, the ign "system as a whole" gets the heavy load curent from the direct battery connection...

 

[BarnStang]

THe MSD red switched 12v wire should not be connected to the factory red w/green strip wire. It needs a DEDICATED switched 12volts...this is what you need to clarify. Yes, you need to run a new wire (usually). THere are other options, butfor now, lets get the car running according tot he MSD instructions...