long read, but i need some advice:
i chose this sub-forum here, since it seems to get the most traffic, and the question is kinda generic enough as to be applicable to any mustang /mods being done by a shop.
scenario:
98 cobra
undergoing installation of a maximum motorsports : maximum grip box, and long tube headers
(chose to do headers at this time, since the k-member would be off, and this would ease/speed/facilitate the header swap (at least for the drives half)).
so maximum says an average install should be 16-18 hours for this kit:
new k-member, torque arm, coil overs on all 4 corners, panhard bar and brace,, new lower control arms, new rear sway bar, full length subframe connectors, oil filter relocate, bump steer, relocate front sway bar.
maximum it should be able to go on in 2 days, and than even magazine editors doing this exact kit, and stopping to take photos, and notes for teh write-ups, have done it in 2 days.
with my skills being limited to bolt on type stuff, and not owning, (or knowing how to use) a welder . . .
i selected a local race shop who builds spec e-30 bmw's, and spec 944's for NASA road racing competition.
when he got the kit, i asked how long he thought it would take, he said he figured he'd have it on in 2 days,
granted, it IS his 1st time doing one of these kits)(and while not necessarily his forte, he HAS worked on some mustangs, even maintained and wrenched on a miller cup fr500s)
but lets face it, a bolt is a bolt, and if you can weld. . . metal is metal.
maximum's instructions are VERY detailed.
i was not necessarily in a rush, because we started well in advance of when i was planning on tracking it, so i was fine with a little done here, a little done there)(again his "2 days" estimate, seemed to jive with maximums estimate of 16-18 hours)
so here is the point . . .
about 3.5 weeks nito it, i am starting to get a little impatient at teh slow progress, and the upcoming track day.
eventually , after telling me it would NOT be ready for friday . . .
i pointed out that he has had the thing for a month, and maximum says it should take 16-18 hours.
and he replies, man, . . . i have over 40 hours (labor) in the kit already, and the torque arm (and a few other odds and ends) arent even on, . .. and the torque arm will probably take about 5 hours.
i can understand 10-15% over-budget on time, to be sure things are right.
read the directions extra, as mustangs aren't his niche.
but he is basically indicating that he has 45+ hrs in the kit, (maybe more, if that doesn't include the headers)
i have an email from him acknowledging maximum's estimate of 16-18 hrs.
(though the email doesn't specifically say he thinks it will take HIM 16-18 hours)
(just his verbal "it should be on in 2 days")
the car was set up and corner weighed yesterday, and is still being bump steered today.
so it just about time to sit and talk about the bill.
i wnat to have a game plan in mind before i go sit.
am i totally screwed? do i have to pay whatever he asks?
my thought is to approach it from an "i don't wanna get raped", and "i don't wanna rape you" standpoint, and try to meet in the middle, somewhere.
parts and stuff: fine
other labor stuff like drive shaft, seat removal, and race seat installation: fine
10% to 15% to maybe 20% over on the labor time estimate: fine
>100% over time-budget on labor : NOT fine
isn't it kinda customary for a shop to call and check with the owner when something is gonna be way over budget??
also, since taking>1 month to do this, implies it was kinda worked in between other jobs for other customer, . . .
??? don't most shops discount the labor rate, as compared to the scenario when that is the one job, and that is all they work on from start to finish?
i want it done RIGHT, and am willing to pay some degree of a premium to feel confident about the job, and not think about it as i am heading for a corner at 140 mph (not the time to doubt your build!!)
the more i am into this, the more i realize things don't always go according to hoyle, so i am in no way looking for a mere 16-18 hr bill, on the Kit part of the build
if he doesn't want to budge . . .
what then???
1) he has lost me as a customer,
2) my buddy, with another mustang he has serviced is gone as well,
3) all future referrals are kaputz
4) and i may even choose to theme/ decorate my car with a slur of his shop logo, as negative advertisement, - a virtual rolling billboard of non-confidence/bad business, which will be at every regional event.
threaten dropping a dime to the better business bureau?
threaten small claims court?
WTF????
i have never EVER threatened to sue someone.
and would probably spend more trying to recoup the labor overage, than i would get back.
just wondering if there would be some way to parlay the threat of such, to my advantage?
despondently wondering what to do.
doc
add a few hours for the headers ( which would go at least somewhat quicker since teh k member was out of the way)
i chose this sub-forum here, since it seems to get the most traffic, and the question is kinda generic enough as to be applicable to any mustang /mods being done by a shop.
scenario:
98 cobra
undergoing installation of a maximum motorsports : maximum grip box, and long tube headers
(chose to do headers at this time, since the k-member would be off, and this would ease/speed/facilitate the header swap (at least for the drives half)).
so maximum says an average install should be 16-18 hours for this kit:
new k-member, torque arm, coil overs on all 4 corners, panhard bar and brace,, new lower control arms, new rear sway bar, full length subframe connectors, oil filter relocate, bump steer, relocate front sway bar.
maximum it should be able to go on in 2 days, and than even magazine editors doing this exact kit, and stopping to take photos, and notes for teh write-ups, have done it in 2 days.
with my skills being limited to bolt on type stuff, and not owning, (or knowing how to use) a welder . . .
i selected a local race shop who builds spec e-30 bmw's, and spec 944's for NASA road racing competition.
when he got the kit, i asked how long he thought it would take, he said he figured he'd have it on in 2 days,
granted, it IS his 1st time doing one of these kits)(and while not necessarily his forte, he HAS worked on some mustangs, even maintained and wrenched on a miller cup fr500s)
but lets face it, a bolt is a bolt, and if you can weld. . . metal is metal.
maximum's instructions are VERY detailed.
i was not necessarily in a rush, because we started well in advance of when i was planning on tracking it, so i was fine with a little done here, a little done there)(again his "2 days" estimate, seemed to jive with maximums estimate of 16-18 hours)
so here is the point . . .
about 3.5 weeks nito it, i am starting to get a little impatient at teh slow progress, and the upcoming track day.
eventually , after telling me it would NOT be ready for friday . . .
i pointed out that he has had the thing for a month, and maximum says it should take 16-18 hours.
and he replies, man, . . . i have over 40 hours (labor) in the kit already, and the torque arm (and a few other odds and ends) arent even on, . .. and the torque arm will probably take about 5 hours.
i can understand 10-15% over-budget on time, to be sure things are right.
read the directions extra, as mustangs aren't his niche.
but he is basically indicating that he has 45+ hrs in the kit, (maybe more, if that doesn't include the headers)
i have an email from him acknowledging maximum's estimate of 16-18 hrs.
(though the email doesn't specifically say he thinks it will take HIM 16-18 hours)
(just his verbal "it should be on in 2 days")
the car was set up and corner weighed yesterday, and is still being bump steered today.
so it just about time to sit and talk about the bill.
i wnat to have a game plan in mind before i go sit.
am i totally screwed? do i have to pay whatever he asks?
my thought is to approach it from an "i don't wanna get raped", and "i don't wanna rape you" standpoint, and try to meet in the middle, somewhere.
parts and stuff: fine
other labor stuff like drive shaft, seat removal, and race seat installation: fine
10% to 15% to maybe 20% over on the labor time estimate: fine
>100% over time-budget on labor : NOT fine
isn't it kinda customary for a shop to call and check with the owner when something is gonna be way over budget??
also, since taking>1 month to do this, implies it was kinda worked in between other jobs for other customer, . . .
??? don't most shops discount the labor rate, as compared to the scenario when that is the one job, and that is all they work on from start to finish?
i want it done RIGHT, and am willing to pay some degree of a premium to feel confident about the job, and not think about it as i am heading for a corner at 140 mph (not the time to doubt your build!!)
the more i am into this, the more i realize things don't always go according to hoyle, so i am in no way looking for a mere 16-18 hr bill, on the Kit part of the build
if he doesn't want to budge . . .
what then???
1) he has lost me as a customer,
2) my buddy, with another mustang he has serviced is gone as well,
3) all future referrals are kaputz
4) and i may even choose to theme/ decorate my car with a slur of his shop logo, as negative advertisement, - a virtual rolling billboard of non-confidence/bad business, which will be at every regional event.
threaten dropping a dime to the better business bureau?
threaten small claims court?
WTF????
i have never EVER threatened to sue someone.
and would probably spend more trying to recoup the labor overage, than i would get back.
just wondering if there would be some way to parlay the threat of such, to my advantage?
despondently wondering what to do.
doc
add a few hours for the headers ( which would go at least somewhat quicker since teh k member was out of the way)