Head Ache

[gregski]

In this sequal to the Mud In #4 Cylinder of the 302 V8 post I decide to do the leak test on the heads while I have them off. I flip the heads upside down and set them down so they are level on a dry piece of cardboad, then I used to poor water in the combustion chambers but that takes all night to find leaks, so I used gasoline this time [as my friend says please don't try this at work]. As it turns out the passenger head above the muddy cylinder is fine, however the head on the opposite side, ie the driver side leakes like a sift.

Now before you sworm me with why are you so masochistic, do it right, send the heads to a machine shop posts, or better yet toss these SMOG era junkers all together, I need to let you know that I am not going to end up using these heads in the long run, they are just to cut my teeth on and practice, I do have a set of E7TE heads off of a 5.0 Mustang but that's another post, and yes I know there are better heads than those also, lol.

So in order to put on the good head on the passenger side do I do anything fancy with the gasket, I know knowing the front and back is important, but do I put any type of gunk on it?

I got the flanged bolts so I am going to torque the top ones to 80 ft lbs and the bottom ones to 70 ft lbs that's what the gasket instructions say to do following the start in the middle and work your way out sequence.

As far as the leaky head the plan is to take the valves out one at a time and clean the crud out of there with brake cleaner and a steel brush, then put them back in, and re-test.

 

[78CobraII]

If the valve seats look OK (i.e. no gouges, not worn into the head), I would read up on lapping valves. That sort of thing is something easily done at home with basic hand tools (and a drill?).

Also, since you have a set of heads to play with, you might try some basic head porting, especially removing the EGR bump in the port and removing casting ridges in the area under the valve seat. Just protect your seats while you are grinding under them. Here is a good instruction site: diyPorting.com


Wear a dust mask if you don't want to taste iron for the next week...

 

[gregski]

Progress and nipples

After cleaning the heads and the valves with a wire brush and brake cleaner, I retested them and the cardboard is nice and dry, no more leaks.

I guess there is no right and left head gaskets, it's the same part number you just flip them over depending what side they go on. At least according to the Fel Pro brand from AutoZone.

And what's up with the "nipples" you put on the ends of the exhaust valves, what are those metal caps for and why don't the intake valves have them too?

 

[Wart]

I guess there is no right and left head gaskets, it's the same part number you just flip them over depending what side they go on. At least according to the Fel Pro brand from AutoZone.

While the gaskets are the same there is a 'front' and an 'up'.

Whats 'up' on one side is 'down' on the other. Front is always front even though front can be installed to the rear.

It has to do with coolant passages from the block to the head. The different size holes are 'jets' which control flow.

More than once I've heard of overheat problems on (re(fresh)end) engines that can be traced to the head gasket installed with front of the gasket to the rear. This creates improper coolant flow through the block and insufficient flow in and from the rear of the head(s) forward.

And what's up with the "nipples" you put on the ends of the exhaust valves, what are those metal caps for and why don't the intake valves have them too?

Those are called rotator caps. I'm guessing they rotate on the stem to minimize rocker-stem wear.

I'm guessing there are no rotator caps on the intakes because the intakes are less stressed.

I went looking for an actual reference for the purpose and function of the rotators, couldn't find anything solid so I'm going with my guessings.

 

[gregski]

Those are called rotator caps. I'm guessing they rotate on the stem to minimize rocker-stem wear.

I'm guessing there are no rotator caps on the intakes because the intakes are less stressed.

someone on another forum said this:

"Those caps on the exhaust valves were Fords attempt to keep them from burning with the unleaded fuel by allowing the valve to rotate easier."

 

[gregski]

got my heads on straight

Well I got the heads back on but it wasn't easy. I sure picked a good heading for the post "Head Ache" as when I was bolting up the second head I snapped one of the long bolts. It was kinda wierd how it happened because I do not have gorilla hands, I am very gentle when I tighten stuff. So anyway I am using a Craftsman torque wrench set on 80 ft lbs for the top bolts and as I tighten following the sequence and adjusting the torgue to 70 ft lbs for the bottom bolts, the wrench clicks on the first few bolts, but then I get to one or two other bolts and I am turning and turning 1/8 of a turn than another 1/8 of a turn and no clicking and I swear it feels like it should have clicked by now. So anyway I decide to back off the bolt ie loosen it and start torquing all over and snap, the darn thing brakes off. Luckily I did not have to drill it out, I was able to unscrew it with some pliers, all that profanity had to be put on hold, lol.

So I go to AutoZone to get a bolt, and they tell me they have to order a kit for $60 bucks, I say never mind, I drive over to Napa and they don't have any, but this guy in line says he'll give me one, man what a nice guy, younger guy in his late 20's so I follow him to his place and check out his '64 Falcon he is putting a 302 into and offer a 12 pack but he doesn't drink, so I owe him and maybe will buy some 302 parts off of him in the future. Didn't know people like that were still around [in California for sure], very cool, thank you.

Here are some pictures of the gasket I used, with the FRONT stamped into it, and that broken bolt, thanks for lookin'.

 

[78CobraII]

Probably just a bad bolt (maybe cracked from over-torquing previously).

Most engine rebuilding books recomend "chasing" the bolt holes in the block with the proper-sized threading bit. Apparently it helps with getting the torque the same on all bolts which in turn helps prevent blown head gaskets especially in high performance engines.

 

[gregski]

Thank you for all the advice, I was just telling my co worker about putting the heads back on and he asked if I put any anti seize compound on those head bolts, to which I replied no. However, I recall the bolts on the driver side having some gray slime on them when I took them off that I used WD40 and a paper towel to whipe off.

So the next time I'm putting the heads back on should I use anti seize on them?

 

[moj_podge_09_19]

I thought you only put anti-seize on bolts that are going into aluminum. Am i correct anyone? I also remember putting it on exhaust collector bolts.

 

[Wart]

Most engine rebuilding books recomend "chasing" the bolt holes in the block with the proper-sized threading bit. Apparently it helps with getting the torque the same on all bolts which in turn helps prevent blown head gaskets especially in high performance engines.

Not just the same torque but the proper torque.

I chase just about everything I assemble.

Thank you for all the advice, I was just telling my co worker about putting the heads back on and he asked if I put any anti seize compound on those head bolts, to which I replied no. However, I recall the bolts on the driver side having some gray slime on them when I took them off that I used WD40 and a paper towel to whipe off.

So the next time I'm putting the heads back on should I use anti seize on them?

I Anti-Seize just about everything, being I live in the land of rust.

I don't anti-seize head bolts. Never even thought of it. I suppose it may have a purpose on the head bolts not under the valve cover, maybe.

After chasing I blow the hole out from the bottom up (use a can of "Air in a can" if you don't have a compressor) I lightly oil the head bolts. Thats all.

Theres a thing called hydrolock where a bottom of a blind bolt bore will have fluid in it then when the fastener is tightened this fluid, being where the bolt wants to be, creates pressure with the potential of fracturing the part/ block. It's not very likely but it can and has happened.

Far as the rest of the engine anything near the water jacket (water pump bolts, etc) get a healthy coating of a non hardening gasket eliminator. Things like accessory brackets get never-seized.

 

[gregski]

So as I'm walking with my head held high and my chest puffed out spraining my elbow while padding myself on the back cause I got the heads back on... I run into Mike. Mike is my other co worker who knows stuff about cars. So he asks how the "put together" is going as I told him it's not quite a rebuild. So I tell him, and he asks: what's the procedure like for assembling the valve train?

What the #@%$ !!! What you mean procedure I never took the valve train apart [old timers this is where you reach for another beer, or a shot of something] I put the same push rods back in, in the same order they came out as. So I come home and dust off the Haynes manual. Go to Chapter 13 and start reading:

No 1 piston at TDC (and valves are closed)

The lash adjuster must now be compressed until it bottoms by applying pressure slowly with the special tool 6513-A, or a suitable substitute lever which will engage in the groove in the lash adjuster plunger. [ok I am totally lost, but I keep reading]

Using a feeler gauge [of a specific width] check that the clearance is within the specified limits. (What limits? Ok turn to the Specifications section)

Rocker arm-to-valve stem clearance (lifter collapsed) = 0.090 to 0.206 inches (2.29 to 5.23 mm)

Clearance adjustment method = Alternative length pushrods

If the clearance is too small, change the pushrod for a shorter one. If the clearance is too great, change the rod for a longer one.

Then it goes on to say how I need to check the following banks: 6 IN, 1 EX, 8 IN, 1 IN, 2 EX, 8 EX, then rotate the crank 180 degrees (half a turn) and check 2 IN, 3 EX, 4 EX, 7 IN, then rotate the crank 270 degrees (3/4 turn) and check 5 EX, 4 IN, 7 EX, 3 IN, 5 IN, 6 EX.

Ok at this point I wanna go cry to mama, this is nothing like the tighten till you can barely spin the rod with your fingers procedures I read about on the forums.

So do I need to adjust anything if I put all the same parts back on never disassembling the valve train?

 

[78CobraII]

Ha, ha, ha! OK, I'm laughing *with* you, not *at* you!

First, you are not building a NASCAR motor, so all of the feeler guage level of precision is not needed. Especially with a hydraulic lifter valve train.

Question: have you replaced any components in the valve train with new parts? (i.e. cam, valves, lifters, rocker arms, valve springs, pushrods.)

If not, then I don't think you need to do any procedure other than the one you outlined from the forums.

Even if you replaced the cam and lifters (not a bad idea if this engine is going on the road), there is no need to go to the feeler guage level. I would mainly check your used parts for cracks or distortion and put them back in. The pushrods should be checked to be straight (lay on a flat surface like a machinists table and roll, or against a straight edge metal ruler). Check the rockers and nuts for cracks. Make sure the pressed-in rocker studs are not pulling out.

I may be missing a few things, but you only really need to go more in depth if this engine will be going into a race car or a daily driver.

If you swapped the cam you will need to retime the engine with the "set #1 piston to TDC" bit, but if you did not disconnect the timing chain or pull the distributor you are good.

For an engine going into a car I would replace the timing chain at a minimum. For a daily driven or high performance weekend car I would also replace the cam and the lifters.

 

[Wart]

Mike is my other co worker who knows stuff about cars.

You'll find damned few people actually know something about cars and / or mechanics.

That's a subject for another thread.

No 1 piston at TDC (and valves are closed)

The lash adjuster must now be compressed until ... {procedure omitted} ... So do I need to adjust anything if I put all the same parts back on never disassembling the valve train?

Ha, ha, ha! OK, I'm laughing *with* you, not *at* you!

First, you are not building a NASCAR motor, so all of the feeler guage level of precision is not needed. Especially with a hydraulic lifter valve train. {+ rest of post}

To add to Bernie,

1) You need to know run of the mill Ford engines from this era had valve trains that weren't exactly of the best quality, accuracy or precision.

2) Lash adjustment ... LOL ... Sorry.

With the piston at TDC, when tightening the rocker nut you tighten just until the slack is taken out of the valve train, at this point the plunger in the lifter is still at the top of it's bore in the lifter. As the rocker nut is tightened further just make sure the plunger is pressed into its bore in the lifter * some *. How much? Some. Note: this isn't the important check.

Now, with the rocker nut tight pull up on the valve side of the rocker and make sure there is some looseness. How much looseness? Some.

The first check really doesn't tell you much. The second check tells if the plunger has bottomed in it's bore in the lifter. This is bad because a bottomed plunger tends to hold valves open and burn out cams and lifters.

Short of it is as long as the lifter plunger is someplace in the middling of its travel / not against or real near the ends of the bore, it's going to work.*

3) If your going to install this engine in a car and take it on the road, meaning you could get stranded, you need to do a visual on the components. What Bernie said about checking the rods for straightness, add to that:

1) Check the rod ends. Make sure none are being pushed into the rod. Also look for ... tittie nippling. The rods should be round but sometimes they take on a sort of point.

2) Inspect the rods rocker socket. If the push rod has gone tittie the rocker socket has worn to match. Then you go out and miss a shift and the tittie rod spears the rocker. Also the rocker sockets just wear out.

3) Inspect the fulcrum. If the fulcrum is torn up you may want to replace the rocker.

4) Inspect the valve end of the rocker, if it's torn up it may be replaced. also look at the valve stem and rotator cap. Same thing.

I say you may want to replace these things. I use to do fleet maintenance on propane fueled trucks for cheap bastards. When I started that job I had one set of beliefs, when I left that job I had come to realize how shabbily an engine could be put together and still .... "work".

 

[gregski]

...The pushrods should be checked to be straight (lay on a flat surface like a machinists table and roll, or against a straight edge metal ruler)...

These are the types of gold nuggets of information I am looking for, common sense shade tree machanic tips, yes I did use my eyecrometer to check the pushrods on a flat table, there was no wobble, my Harley buddy taught me that trick years ago when we rebuilt my '83 Shovelhead, [ahem] Harley Davidson FXRS Super Glide, for those not familiar.

Thank you very much for reading my long post and taking the time to reply, I'm sure others will benefit from it as well.

 

[gregski]

... I use to do fleet maintenance on propane fueled trucks for cheap bastards. When I started that job I had one set of beliefs, when I left that job I had come to realize how shabbily an engine could be put together and still .... "work".

I pray to the Gasoline Gods that this will be the case with The Mud Dog !!! since nats hair precision ain't my thing but I can do this 3 millimeter tolerance, which is huge that's thicker than a quarter

thanks for reading my long post and replying

 

[yellow coupe]

You'll find damned few people actually know something about cars and / or mechanics.

But you will find plenty who think they do. I have turned wrenches on my own stuff and off and on in shops for 30 years. I just love it when I get told how to do something by someone and it's totally WRONG.

 

[COBRA 7]

I rolled my pushrods on a piece of glass.

Worked for me.