Livernois Motorsports gets 415 RWHP / 399 RWTQ in the new 5.0!

[fivepointNO]

HP wins out up top. Torque wins down low... provided traction is available. Supercharged air is bound to help acceleration, which explains why the 03/04 Cobra gets to 130 quicker even though the 1/4 mile time is close. The Cobra has launch issues compared to the 2011, not just due to IRS, but because of massive torque which is hard to manage. I mean, we're talking stock everything here. Computer management is different as well, for various reasons.

A car like the SL63 AMG has a much larger engine, built on the same kind of technology. It also has an unreal 7speed transmission with 4 modes of operation, including "race start" or something like that. I read about it a few days ago and it's outstanding. It's also about 150K... I'd rather 4 2011 Mustang GT's than 1 SL63 AMG. I could sell 2-3 of them and still have a car to drive... The C63 AMG is very much the same as the SL, but only has 3 transmission modes. Either way, it's an F1 style paddle shifted "automatic manual," which surely helps acceleration, along with the 6.3L V8. 518hp and 465 lf-ft torque... There's also a large separation in wheelbase, which should give a launch advantage as well. I find no reason to compare that car to a Mustang GT.

A note on the new GT... I read that the headers will be replaced with manifolds after about 6mo of production. I have no details or idea why, but it was in an article I read recently. Maybe manifolds weren't ready yet.

 

[nmcgrawj]

There's no way I'd hesitate to take that Benz over 10 mustangs. Car for car.....the mustang is and always will be "just" a mustang. A cheap muscle car.

But hey, enjoy the 4 mustangs lol

 

[Pokageek]

I guess I'm just used to seeing 300rwhp sn95's run 12s that 380rwhp should be faster if it really weighed the same as our cars :dunno:

Maybe the mph shows the power tho? Although being a second slower than a 03/04 cobra stat has me scratching my head.

That is a good point. Its reasonable though I guess. If average driver say is 13.0-13.2 with a 300rwhp mustang, then 80 more rw is a good .8 tenths better, so that takes the car to a 12.2-12.4. Add say 300# or so and the car is at 12.5-12.7. Oh, and BTW, since the fox 5.0 block can handle 400-450rwhp, then I wonder why we dont see more 400rhwp na 302's? It can be done. Maybe its the issue with the driveability. I think it would be real funny to pull up next to a new 5.0 with an old 5.0 beating it.

As to the terminators..its got to be the TQ that makes them take flight so quickly. Sure the 5.0 will catch it but it'll take longer obviously.

 

[nmcgrawj]

that would be hilarious man. A few notches will put a hurting on em since they're so light. I think it'll be a bit harder for us to do it with only 302 cubes....you'd have to sacrifice too much to make rhe comparison worthwhile.


When we break it down like that it makes more sense and seems much less drastic. I just can't imagine telling a new guy with a 94/95 that he needs 360+rwhp to run a low 12.


Let's not forget that the 12.7 number is NOT from average drivers. So most u run into wi be 13 second cars I bet. Haha.

 

[ProKiller]

the american muscle '11 launching off the idle was putting down 13.0s directly from the factory. They tried launching it at 4k but it just spun and was worse. still pretty impressive. This was at maple grove two fridays ago.

 

[Killercanary]

the american muscle '11 launching off the idle was putting down 13.0s directly from the factory. They tried launching it at 4k but it just spun and was worse. still pretty impressive. This was at maple grove two fridays ago.

Do you want me to come and drive it?

 

[revhead347]

Ummm Kurt, please clarify. Unless paul put $40k into his vert at some point????

Paul's got $40K in his vert....EASY. Whether he's aware of it or not, if you pull out every receipt for everything you ever did to the car, every bolt, every washer, every time it got tuned, or whatever, $40K ain't nothing. If you did the same for your car...You know, sat down and spent an entire afternoon adding every single thing up, you'd be sick to your stomach.

Kurt

 

[revhead347]

"The new engine is all-new, all-aluminum with double overhead cams, four valves per cylinder, twin independent variable camshaft timing and every other trick in the book including an 11.0:1 compression ratio. You can't even put a set of tubular headers on it. It's already got 'em. And get this: The redline is a screaming 7,000 rpm. The sound itself, as you wind it out and blast shifts, is worth the price of the car."

"I'm still disappointed with its acceleration times. The heavier and less powerful 03/04 svt Cobra is a full second faster to 130mph according to car and driver. What gives? We know this engine is also a bit underrated power wise, and given that it weighs less than a camaro I would expect better times. Even motor trend only got a 110mph trap speed. For instance on insideline a c63amg has a slightly higher weightower ratio and still manages to pull off the 1/4mile in 12.8 @114"

Our cars came with tubular headers on them. Ford said the car will pick up a few hp with longtubes on it. The headers that are on there are tubular, but not the best.

The acceleration times on the new Mustang are astounding. You just need to know what acceleration times to look for. Look at the 0-60 time, the 50-70 time, and the 30-50 time. Those are all really good. The problem is the quarter mile time, which is not good, because of the transmission it has in it. If you pulled out the 6 speed in that car, and put in a TKO-500, I bet you could get another 4/10s out of it easy.

Kurt

 

[Black95GTS]

Not to mention all of those times are on street tires. Put a set of all season Pirellis on a fox running mid 12s and all of a sudden its in the 13s. There's no way its apples to apples comparison with street tires vs. slicks or even drag radials.

Agreed with transmission, you are not at 1:1 until 5th gear.

Adam

 

[95five-oh]

That is a tremendous amount of money to be spent on a car that can only be enjoyed ~8 months a year and IMO it goes against everything I believed the mustang to be which was an affordable working man's sports/muscle car. I can't help but make the observation that for the money its a better buy to picked up a used C6 vette.

I couldn't agree more. I would CONSIDER spending 40k on a new truck or SUV that could be used year-round and also for work purposes, hauling, towing, vacations etc. As much as I love mustangs they are essentially toys, and the pricing is getting ridiculous.

 

[fivepointNO]

There's no way I'd hesitate to take that Benz over 10 mustangs. Car for car.....the mustang is and always will be "just" a mustang. A cheap muscle car.

But hey, enjoy the 4 mustangs lol

I see no reason to purchase a status symbol. Besides there are several better performers than an C63 AMG for far less money, not to mention that if you got those 10 Mustangs, you could sell 6 of them and not only buy the AMG, but probably your new home as well.... Though, thanks to the overpriced AMG, you wouldn't have a garage too in most good neighborhoods.

I'd sell 8 of the Mustangs, buy a new home with 2 car garage, furnish it, and put money in the bank... But enjoy that overpriced AMG and empty bank account...

Btw, there are "cheap" Mustangs that essentially lay waste to that AMG already... For well under half the price. I like M-B in general, but they're all overpriced because people pay for the name NOT just the ability.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Lol now it's 10 mustangs?


This is stupid to begin with. My point is very basic....a mustang is just a mustang. If I was going to spend $40k on a car....i'd get a vette.

Besides the point tho...if I did find someone to give me that much "cash" to buy either car...I sure as hell wouldn't put it into a car.

At the end of the day....4 mustangs....10 mustangs.....100 mustangs are still just mustangs. I love them for what they are....a cheap mans sports car. Ford might be trying to change that....but hey, it's a bad idea IMO.

In terms of not buying a status car....isn't that what we want in a house? Clothes? Shoes? Watches? Our wife's wedding ring? Why do we drive v8s and not v6s? Yea we like the rumble....but isn't a race/your car being more powerful than mine/etc all some form of status/I'm superior than u?


Every "class" has it's own version of status. We could argue all day on what to spend $140k on which car...that's not my point. I've had a "mustang" since I first started driving(v6 at first)...so getting a new one is no big deal. Getting a Benz.....any Benz....is a big deal. I know i'll be able to buy a new 5.0 in years to come if i want...not everyone has a chance to drive a $150k car.....let alone own one. Being a car guy...i just cant find it in myself to pass up the opportunity.

Off topic slightly, my buddy just bought a 05 GTO. Now...i havent seen the new 5.0 up close and personal to inspect it.....but his GTO puts the build quality of mustangs to shame (camaros and firebirds also). It is a really really really nice car. While the benz is inflated in price (what car isnt though?)....u cant tell me that the benz is not greater than any stang. Even a holy gt500.


Anyway, rant off. Hope u see my point.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Not to mention all of those times are on street tires. Put a set of all season Pirellis on a fox running mid 12s and all of a sudden its in the 13s. There's no way its apples to apples comparison with street tires vs. slicks or even drag radials.

Agreed with transmission, you are not at 1:1 until 5th gear.

Adam

thats a good point adam.

 

[fivepointNO]

Lol now it's 10 mustangs?


This is stupid to begin with. My point is very basic....a mustang is just a mustang. If I was going to spend $40k on a car....i'd get a vette.

Besides the point tho...if I did find someone to give me that much "cash" to buy either car...I sure as hell wouldn't put it into a car.

At the end of the day....4 mustangs....10 mustangs.....100 mustangs are still just mustangs. I love them for what they are....a cheap mans sports car. Ford might be trying to change that....but hey, it's a bad idea IMO.

In terms of not buying a status car....isn't that what we want in a house? Clothes? Shoes? Watches? Our wife's wedding ring? Why do we drive v8s and not v6s? Yea we like the rumble....but isn't a race/your car being more powerful than mine/etc all some form of status/I'm superior than u?


Every "class" has it's own version of status. We could argue all day on what to spend $140k on which car...that's not my point. I've had a "mustang" since I first started driving(v6 at first)...so getting a new one is no big deal. Getting a Benz.....any Benz....is a big deal.


Anyway, rant off. Hope u see my point.

Don't look NOW, but it was YOU who said 10 Mustangs, sir laughsalot... But doesn't know why.

Yes, we see your point... Have you ever actually had a Mustang? You can't seem to not beg a way to knock them. My point was simpler still... While its "only" a Mustang, it outperforms most vehicles and while you could get a Corvette for 40K... It's going to be used. Meanwhile, you can get a brand new Mustang GT convertible for less than 40K, not to mention the standard GT for about 30K...

Ford isn't trying to change the basic premise of the Mustang, our government is and has. Ford is working with what they have and, what they have, is the BEST overall pony car ever. No, it's not a Corvette, but then, Corvette's don't seat 4. On the other hand, the Mustang GT is quite comparable in performance to the standard Corvette in daily use terms.

If this is stupid to begin with, why did you bring it back up? Hindsight, anyone?

Perhaps you think your house is a status symbol, I don't. Nor is my vehicle.

I haven't had a Mustang as long as I've been driving, just since June of 1986. I've never owned a Benz, but I've driven more than a couple. They're well appointed and comfortable, yet very much overpriced, which is why I'll never own one. Well, that and I honestly don't find them to be a bit better built than the average Ford.

PS Ford build quality has been rated higher than GM for a very long time. Yes, the GTO, made in Australia, is a nice car, but it's not better built than a Ford in general, just better than most other GM's. If they were built so well and not overpriced, why is GM removing the Pontiac moniker? Did you ever check the price of a new 2004-06 GTO? There's a reason they only made so many... I guess the quality was too good for the price...

Two GM's and a Mercedes Benz... and look what we're comparing them to... the "cheap" Mustang... Which costs less than any of the three in new sticker pricing, including the one which hasn't been offered for nearly 4yrs. :Zip2:

 

[Bullitt95]

Some facts:

Motor Trend have tested two examples of the 2011 GT. One went 12.8 @ 110.8 and the other went 12.7 @ 111.3. Curb weight is 3612lb.
As far as dyno results go, here are two that are truly representative of what the new 5.0 puts down. Both runs were done in 5th gear in GT's equipped with a 3.73 rear:

Evolution Motorsports: 369rwhp/352rwtq
Livernois Motorsports: 375rwhp/354rwtq

The HP and TQ curves were almost identical though the peaks were slightly different.

 

[revhead347]

Off topic slightly, my buddy just bought a 05 GTO. Now...i havent seen the new 5.0 up close and personal to inspect it.....but his GTO puts the build quality of mustangs to shame (camaros and firebirds also). It is a really really really nice car. While the benz is inflated in price (what car isnt though?)....u cant tell me that the benz is not greater than any stang. Even a holy gt500.


Anyway, rant off. Hope u see my point.

I agree with you, for $40K, I would buy a Vette too. But those GTOs are junk man. Don't even try to compare the quality of those to a Mustang. They have notorious problems with rear end gears whining, and suspension parts breaking. I have had 3 friends who bought them new. They said the worst part about owning that car is that you're stuck with it. If you bought one new, it depreciates way faster than you can pay it down. They lost about half their value in under 2 years. My friend Dan said the two happiest days he ever had with his GTO was the day he bought it, and the day he sold it.

Kurt

 

[Pokageek]

So tell that guy to slap a turbo and some injectors on his stock mustang and he's got 50 more rwhp than that new 5.0 ... just say'n.

"Our cars came with tubular headers on them. Ford said the car will pick up a few hp with longtubes on it. The headers that are on there are tubular, but not the best."

I think he was saying as opposed to crimped. And they are going to cheaper ones next.

The acceleration times on the new Mustang are astounding. You just need to know what acceleration times to look for. Look at the 0-60 time, the 50-70 time, and the 30-50 time. Those are all really good.. ."

I bet it doesn't touch the terminator stock. And its great but where else do you go after 415rwhp without using nitrous? The terminator just needs a pully and BAM 600rw! I like the new 5.0 but where does it go for more power like we are all used to with these strokers and all?

 

[revhead347]

So tell that guy to slap a turbo and some injectors on his stock mustang and he's got 50 more rwhp than that new 5.0 ... just say'n.

"Our cars came with tubular headers on them. Ford said the car will pick up a few hp with longtubes on it. The headers that are on there are tubular, but not the best."

I think he was saying as opposed to crimped. And they are going to cheaper ones next.

The acceleration times on the new Mustang are astounding. You just need to know what acceleration times to look for. Look at the 0-60 time, the 50-70 time, and the 30-50 time. Those are all really good.. ."

I bet it doesn't touch the terminator stock. And its great but where else do you go after 415rwhp without using nitrous? The terminator just needs a pully and BAM 600rw! I like the new 5.0 but where does it go for more power like we are all used to with these strokers and all?

I have a friend who's building a 351 turbo Mustang. Probably going to be in the 650rwhp range. I'm not saying the turbo is the only thing getting done to it, but he's $85K in the car. Turbos are retarded expensive. You might be able to do a ghetto rig turbo setup for less than a new Mustang is going to cost you, but it's still not going to be a new car.

Not sure how it's going to compare with the Terminator Cobras. We'll have to see. I agree with the mods. I don't think there is much room to grow anywhere with that new engine. Basically any serious mod is going to mean a complete tear down and re design. It certainly won't have the power potential that the new LSx engines have. You can put mild heads and cam on an LS2 car and have 500rwhp.

Kurt

 

[nmcgrawj]

Kurt,

I wasn't referring to the mechanical strength.....no "entry" level sports car is perfect. Just as u point out it's weaknesses....EVERY car has some. I'm simply saying the build quality (interior) is in another league. I haven't been in a 10+ mustang but the 05-09 and every car before it can't touch the interior of a GTO with a 10ft pole. There is no cheap plastic bs that makes up 98% of mustang interiors lol. With a 6speed trans and a LS2....I can "deal" with rear end problems. Rather that than deal with 05-09 mustang ownership lol. The only thing that absolutely sucks about GTOs is the styling.


And could u point out the "retarded" part of expensive turbos? Our very own runs 9s with a $500 entry turbo. A whipple kit is over $5,000 for most cars. Sure if you drop your car off at a shop and cut a check....it's gonna be expensive. I just don't see it. You say it like the turbo is responsible for the majority of the 85k. is he trying to make a "like brand new" car? Or is he building a car to run like 7s? 650rwhp jsnt even that much power to do that is it? Guess it depends on weight...


Besides....a $85k mustang as no place in the discussion with a 11' gt or a 03/04 cobra. Obviously it's being purpose built for something....atleast I hope. He's gotta be crazy if it took half that to make a 351w make 650rwhp with forced induction.

 

[revhead347]

Yeah, it's going to be like a brand new car. I think he's got like $10K in paint and body work. $1000 in seats, $2K in the cage, $3K in replacing all the rubber and trim, etc. But the turbo is the majority of that money. It was a Pro Turbo kit, which was like $9K at the time, for a 302 that was then recut for a 351. There is no such thing as a $500 turbo kit that runs 9s. You might have got the turbo for $500. But then there is plumbing, fuel pumps, engine management, engine mods, boost controllers, blow off valves, should I go on? A quality turbo kit is at least $4K. Now start adding up the rest of the stuff. A fuel system, a computer mod, it goes on.

The only thing I like about the GTO is the styling. The interior is mediocre. The seats aren't very comfortable on long rides. The seats in my Mustang are much better. If you are into that sort of thing, you can pick up a GTO dirt cheap. They are virtually worthless.

Kurt