Yea, I hid it in somewhere of my OP, but I really just want a fun street car to throw into some turns. Not looking for some beast that is a maintenance whore, or something so expensive that if something breaks its going to cost me dearly, like BMWs or Benzs.. Just something I can mod up and is reliable. Heard nothing but good things about the Mach/01 Cobra and Terminator engines.
Opinions Wanted for Live Rear vs IRS
- Thread starter COL3MANUS
- Start date
Yea, I hid it in somewhere of my OP, but I really just want a fun street car to throw into some turns. Not looking for some beast that is a maintenance whore, or something so expensive that if something breaks its going to cost me dearly, like BMWs or Benzs.. Just something I can mod up and is reliable. Heard nothing but good things about the Mach/01 Cobra and Terminator engines.
-
Sponsors (?)
The IRS has wheel hop issues, a bump steer problem, poor alignment under hard cornering due to deflection of the stock bushings, and finally an overheating issue when pushed to the absolute limit during open track events. Thats why the 00R came stock with a diff cooler. All that oil is trapped in the pumpkin and doesnt have axle tubes to use as a heat sink. But unless you know how to push the car to that point you will never have a problem with it.
The wheel hop issue fixes go hand in hand with the poor alignment fixes. Quality bushings from either MM or FTBR will all but cure them. If you have tires with a stiff side wall it will still hop a little but no where near as bad with the stock rubber stuff.
The bump steer issue can be fixed with adjustable toe links but is time consuming. I wouldn't bother with this mod unless you were going to do some kind of racing.
If you buy a Mach and swap in an IRS change out the bushings BEFORE you drop it in the car so that you dont have to take it back out again. Plus by now any IRS you get will have blown out bushings.
The wheel hop issue fixes go hand in hand with the poor alignment fixes. Quality bushings from either MM or FTBR will all but cure them. If you have tires with a stiff side wall it will still hop a little but no where near as bad with the stock rubber stuff.
The bump steer issue can be fixed with adjustable toe links but is time consuming. I wouldn't bother with this mod unless you were going to do some kind of racing.
If you buy a Mach and swap in an IRS change out the bushings BEFORE you drop it in the car so that you dont have to take it back out again. Plus by now any IRS you get will have blown out bushings.
Stumbaugh
Member
When you decide to get serious about drag racing, every single pound counts. The IRS is very much heavier than an SRA. Find me an all out race car that runs an IRS in a class that has mostly SRA, and that the IRS wins. I can tell you now, you wont. 75lbs is a very big difference when it comes to race weight. That can mean the difference between 1st place or 9th place. So yes, weight does have a lot to do why they swap them out, not to mention the fact that it cost 10x as much to beef one up as it does a SRA.
and before it get's brought up, yes in NMRA classes, you have to weigh a certain amount. BUT, if your car has to weigh 3000lbs, and yours weighs 2,900lbs, that means you get to strategiclly place 100lbs of weigh exactly where you want it.
Live axle is crap. Awful awful crap. The rear of the car is so unstable on any surface that isn't totally smooth. And yes.... I've upgraded the suspension already. Its still terrible.
I won't buy another Mustang until they do away with this cheap crap rear suspension. When I drive my Benz it really rubs salt into the wounds.
L. O. L.
Let me guess, you spent a ton of money on name brand parts so your car would handle like a "race car"? Exactly what kind of roads do you think "race cars" are designed to drive on? Sounds like you got what you paid for, but I wouldn't be blaming the solid rear axle for your mistakes.
No. I did sensible upgrades that did indeed improve the suspension greatly from stock. No mistakes.
No I'm not comparing it to a "race car", I'm comparing it to my other bone stock cars that have VASTLY better suspension.
IMO the live axle is dated crap that is only good for drag racing.
nickmckinney
Member
- Sep 25, 2009
- 164
- 0
- 16
I have both and one issue with the IRS is that parts are not exactly being made for it anymore and the joints in the uprights are not the easiest to replace when they go bad. I have stockpiled enough parts for a complete second IRS save the subframe. Ford didn't make many of them and stuff is starting to dry up already if you ever need to do a repair on one.
You are taking what I said and blowing it out of proportion. I simply made a statement that it can be used for drag racing and is. VERY few people running 9s use it for good reason. Yes its heavier and yes a solid axel is a better setup for an all out drag car and we arent talking about all out drag cars in this thread.
This is VERY true. However the only part I would be concerned with breaking is the pumpkin because you can't get it from ford anymore. Half shafts can be made and bushings should not be a problem either. As for the cross axis bearings I dont think they are all that hard to replace. FTBR and MM both make kits that come with a puller. Eventually parts will become scarce but before then I'll be stockpiling parts.
Stumbaugh
Member
Yes and all I said was that a person would be dumb for wanting an IRS for drag racing. I never said it couldnt be used. I have plenty of friends with 03/04 cobra's, 2010 Camaro's, and SRT8 chargers that drag race their cars with the stock IRS' in them. They also break half shafts every other time we go out to the track, which is my reasoning behind saying that using an IRS for drag racing is dumb.
nickmckinney
Member
- Sep 25, 2009
- 164
- 0
- 16
No worries on that, the pumpkin is exactly the same as from the 93-98 Mark VIII, tens of thousands of those are out there
Rear shock design also came from the Mark/Tbird platform, most of those guys are grabbing the rear Cobra shocks for their cars.
No worries on that, the pumpkin is exactly the same as from the 93-98 Mark VIII, tens of thousands of those are out there
Rear shock design also came from the Mark/Tbird platform, most of those guys are grabbing the rear Cobra shocks for their cars.
Thats good info. I had no idea the pumpkin was the same. I knew that the irs was barrowed from those platforms but I didnt know what parts. Are the upper and lower A arms the same too?
I had to make some tweaks but my SRA handles great. 
To the OP: you can get either one to handle great. I wouldn't get too wrapped around which type you have as long as you know the limitations of either one and buy tasteful mods to fix it if you don't like it.
For an example of seeing what a properly tuned SRA can do just simply look at the youtube video comparing the M3 vs. the 2011 mustang w/ the handling package.
To the OP: you can get either one to handle great. I wouldn't get too wrapped around which type you have as long as you know the limitations of either one and buy tasteful mods to fix it if you don't like it. For an example of seeing what a properly tuned SRA can do just simply look at the youtube video comparing the M3 vs. the 2011 mustang w/ the handling package.
I had to make some tweaks but my SRA handles great.
For an example of seeing what a properly tuned SRA can do just simply look at the youtube video comparing the M3 vs. the 2011 mustang w/ the handling package.
I agree. A solid axel can be set up to handle great provided you are willing to drop the cash on a p/h bar and tq arm setup. If it were me I would get a fays2 watts link rather then the p/h bar.
I know the SRA is pretty comfortable in the S197s but in a SN95 it will NEVER be as comfortable as a IRS over rough pavement. To me that is one thing the solid will never beat out the IRS on. Thats why I swapped one in because my car is used for cruising to places like monterey or fort bragg (CA not the army post. Who would WANT to go there anyway) and those two places are about 4 hrs away. So to me it makes sense to have an IRS. Its just so much more smooth. Hell you even notice the difference on smooth pavement.
nickmckinney
Member
- Sep 25, 2009
- 164
- 0
- 16
Nope, pretty much everything else is unique (arms/uprights/tie rods/subframe/axle shafts)
Gotcha.. Oh yea, I will definitely make sure when doing the swap I will take care of any maintenance that needs to be done so I won't have to pull it again.. I've heard about the wheel hop issues and actually found a walkthrough someone put together, and in great detail! Saved it as a fav.
Wow, good point. Is it really that bad though? Even in the aftermarket world, is it that hard to find replacements? This will be my daily driver, so my biggest concern really is that I am still able to take exit and on ramps the way I can in this godforsaken stock tC with a stock Mach. Pretty sure the sweeping the turns here in FL will be okay to take at around 70+.
Since you have both, have you noted a world of difference between the two besides the general ride of the cars? Thanks! I had to make some tweaks but my SRA handles great.
For an example of seeing what a properly tuned SRA can do just simply look at the youtube video comparing the M3 vs. the 2011 mustang w/ the handling package.
Thanks Dark! And that is why I am at a cross roads with this topic. I've always heard that SRA's need to be ditched in favor of an IRS setup to make a car handle, blah blah... But then the review for the new GT came out, and it mentioned how it pulled a .9-something on the skid pad. So that bit of info kinda threw me off.
Thanks Dark! And that is why I am at a cross roads with this topic. I've always heard that SRA's need to be ditched in favor of an IRS setup to make a car handle, blah blah... But then the review for the new GT came out, and it mentioned how it pulled a .9-something on the skid pad. So that bit of info kinda threw me off.
You have to keep in mind that the solid axel setup in the S197 is a little different then all the previouse years. The LCA's are different along with the sway bar setup and it comes stock with a P/H bar. You will need to add at least new control arms and a P/H bar to make a solid handle well.
If you want to be fast around a road course, get better at driving before spending money on parts. And spend money on tires, because that is the biggest contributor to low lap times. The car itself isn't the problem.
Talking about "handling" as if it is a part that comes in a box is nice for people who sell parts but is not the way things really work.
A Mustang is predictable and controllable in a corner. I'd rather have that than bleeding edge "handling" that might be faster around a course but was difficult to keep on the pavement. People are fond of talking smack about Mustangs for "handling," but have you seen the cars 99% of the nation drives? An SN95 coupe weighs about the same as a Corvette or 911, is RWD, and comes with a V8 and fairly wide tires for the power and weight of the car. If it doesn't behave in someone's hands, I really don't know that I can blame the car.
Some people think Corvettes handle poorly from the factory and are too light in the rear end, making them uncontrollable around a corner. Some people think 911's are deathtraps because the rear engine makes them snap the rear around at the slightest bump on a corner. There's never a shortage of critics, especially critics basing their opinions on conjecture and prejudice rather than experience and objectivity.
Similar threads
