Worth It?

[Sherwin]

Has anyone had experience with the two different types of superchargers on similar make/model of vehicle?

@ Sharad: Why does the ATI Procharger get your vote?

 

[usaf_branham]

I drove a vortech mustang once, it was a dog until around 3800-4k rpm, then it took off like a bat out of hell.

Personally, I like the twin screw. I can mash on the throttle at any rpm and the car plants me.

My chief complaint about my 2.1 is that I am limited to the output of the blower. So, when I finally build my bottom end, I would have to upgrade to a larger KB to take full advantage of the motor. Granted, the same thing would apply to a centri, it is just that I would have to swap the entire blower + manifold out and that gets a little pricey. If you have aspirations of building the bottom end in the future, I would suggest getting the larger kenne bell tuner kit. If not the 2.1 is perfect for stock bottom end.

Another option would be Tork Tech. I have heard good things about their kit.

 

[Sherwin]

I looked up the tork tech. Pricey, and only for the 99-04, which would be fine if I get the parts and do the PI head swap also...

 

[Deleted member 38176]

The Tork Tech is a BITCH to put together and you've got to get lucky finding the parts for a decent price.

 

[Sherwin]

So I've got a garage full of PI parts... Heads, Cams, Intake manifold and plenum(down tube following the throttle body?). One thing I've read on here is that the Intake manifold with the aluminum crossover is prefered to the all plastic manifold. I have the all plastic manifold, but the seller says it never leaked. It doesn't show any signs of cracks, so should it be ok to use, or should I order one with the aluminum crossover anyway to be safe? Also ordered Subframe Connectors and the 3.73 gear set with install kit...

During a conversation with one of my part sources I mentioned my Kenne Bell idea. He mentioned that with the PI swap that my compression ratio would be way too high to safely run a blower producing any boost. He suggested I call another group of Mustang Gurus to ask their opinion to be sure. They stated that the stock pistons and rods aren't near strong enough to handle the extra pressure from the PI performance and the blower... Whats all your thoughts on this issue? If this is accurate, I guess I'm pretty much limited to a list of bolt on parts for this car now...

 

[40oz]

Get the intake with AL crossover. No reason to do the job twice. The plastic one will break at an inconvenient time, that's why there is an updated part with an aluminum crossover.

I'm not sure you are giving up a whole lot not being able to go right to a blower. It's a big investment compared to the value of your car (i.e. more than the car is worth), and you will notice an immediate improvement in your car with just the PI parts and a tune.

And realistically, with the higher compression ratio you wouldn't need as much boost pressure to make the same power as a non-PI blower car. Nobody cares how much pressure is in your manifold, it's the output that matters. According to Kenne Bell's website, you'll only give up less than 10 hp with the PI heads vs. a '99+ motor with slightly lower compression.

I would definitely get a bunch of opinions from people who've done it before buying a blower kit. I've not done it, so my opinion isn't really worth much

 

[N8Dogg98]

^ true... with an intercooled KB @ < 9 PSI you could easily run a 91 octane tune with a PI swapped 96-98 car. PI swap C/R is around 10.5:1 which isn't that high to begin with. She'd run like a bandit with the PI top end and a KB `

 

[fiveohwblow]

Sounds like you guys have been lacking riding in a decent sized centri car....

I.e. decent motor before the centri and 15 lbs at max. I see boost well before 3800 Rpms. Another advantage to the centri setup, or moderately gradual build up is easier to control traction. PD blowers or a huge 200 shot of nitrous that all hit at one second can cause your tires to break loose more flippantly.

I have to agree with Nate that the PD blowers feel like such a rush when they come on... It is cool, but creates the problem I mentioned previously.

 

[N8Dogg98]

Word Justin ... plus centri's can be had on the cheap

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sharad]

Has anyone had experience with the two different types of superchargers on similar make/model of vehicle?

@ Sharad: Why does the ATI Procharger get your vote?

I've driven low 10-second/high 9-second PD blown, centrifugal, and turbo cars. I prefer the boost curve of a centrifugal because at lower rpms, they drive like an N/A car, but when you wind them out, they hit hard.

For example, my old '92 notch ran 10.17 @ 132 with a ProCharger P1SC running 17psi. Under 3000 rpms around town, the car drove like a 13 second car. But at the track, I launch at 6000rpms (roughly 16psi), I shifted at 7000rpms (17psi) and when I shifted, it only dropped down to 15psi at 5500rpms. IOW, people brag around the low RPM torque of turbos and pd blowers, but when you're actually racing, you're never really at 2500rpms. So centrifugals have this dr jekyll / mr hyde persona that I like. Tame around town at part throttle, but beastly when you twist on them.

On the other hand, I recently drove UPR's 2010 GT with about 20psi from a Roush TVS. The car runs 9.90 @ 133, so really close to what my car ran. Anyway, driving around town, if you wanted to speed up a little to get over into the next lane just driving along in traffic, you dip into the throttle about 35-50% not really thinking about it and the car tries to rip your head off and crap down your neck. I mean, it's VIOLENT. I accidentally laid about a 100foot burnout IN FRONT OF A COP. You just don't really think about it. PD blowers make mountains of torque all the way down there at the low rpms you normally cruise around in. It's mentally exhausting to drive like that. (to me) It's a lot like driving a Mustang GT in the snow. You're very careful because you know that if you look at the gas pedal wrong, that car will swap ends on you. That's what PD blown cars are like, but in the dry. My dad's 09 GT500 is the same way. Just a disproportionate amount of low end torque.

Maybe I'll have to forfeit my man-card for saying all of this, but I just like the power curve of a centrifugal blower better.

 

[Sherwin]

all great information Guys, thanks!!

The more I think about it, I think I'll stick with bolt ons for this motor and maybe search for a decent salvage motor to build properly for a blown application in the future.

About the value of the car and putting more into it than its worth, I think we're all guilty of doing that. In my mind, unless its a special edition car that will somewhat hold its value anyway, you're throwing your money away if you think you're adding value to it. I got the car cheap enough that I can play with it a bit and not feel too terribly about the loss when and if I decide to sell it.

So with the blower off the table for the moment, I turn my thoughts to other power adders other than bolt-ons like Nitrous injection...whats everyone's thoughts on this?

I'm enjoying the education...

 

[usaf_branham]

I've driven low 10-second/high 9-second PD blown, centrifugal, and turbo cars. I prefer the boost curve of a centrifugal because at lower rpms, they drive like an N/A car, but when you wind them out, they hit hard.

For example, my old '92 notch ran 10.17 @ 132 with a ProCharger P1SC running 17psi. Under 3000 rpms around town, the car drove like a 13 second car. But at the track, I launch at 6000rpms (roughly 16psi), I shifted at 7000rpms (17psi) and when I shifted, it only dropped down to 15psi at 5500rpms. IOW, people brag around the low RPM torque of turbos and pd blowers, but when you're actually racing, you're never really at 2500rpms. So centrifugals have this dr jekyll / mr hyde persona that I like. Tame around town at part throttle, but beastly when you twist on them.

On the other hand, I recently drove UPR's 2010 GT with about 20psi from a Roush TVS. The car runs 9.90 @ 133, so really close to what my car ran. Anyway, driving around town, if you wanted to speed up a little to get over into the next lane just driving along in traffic, you dip into the throttle about 35-50% not really thinking about it and the car tries to rip your head off and crap down your neck. I mean, it's VIOLENT. I accidentally laid about a 100foot burnout IN FRONT OF A COP. You just don't really think about it. PD blowers make mountains of torque all the way down there at the low rpms you normally cruise around in. It's mentally exhausting to drive like that. (to me) It's a lot like driving a Mustang GT in the snow. You're very careful because you know that if you look at the gas pedal wrong, that car will swap ends on you. That's what PD blown cars are like, but in the dry. My dad's 09 GT500 is the same way. Just a disproportionate amount of low end torque.

Maybe I'll have to forfeit my man-card for saying all of this, but I just like the power curve of a centrifugal blower better.

man card revoked...

 

[Sherwin]

Well I feel like an idiot now... Yesterday afternoon we began swapping my gears from factory 2.73 to new Ford Racing 3.73 gears. It took a while, with me and my buddy both mechanically inclined but never had a unit like this apart before. We got it all done and upon the test drive it has a nasty whine on coasting/deceleration. So 2 problems I know could be contributing to it and I'd like some input from you all. We didn't have a dial indicator so we rocked the original gears a few times to get a "feel" for the backlash, and set the new gears to the same "feel". We didn't have a bearing puller and wrecked some shims the first time we had to pull the pinion bearing off and add shims, so when we added what we felt was necessary and put it together it was permenant for the moment. "Felt" the backlash and did a placement test on the ring teeth. Backlash "felt" good, Pinion was riding high or on the outside "heel" of the ring gear.

Question, would improper backlash and the pinion placement on the ring gear contribute to this? I'm pretty certain the answer is yes, and that I need to get a dial indicator, gear puller, and do it all over again... I'm prepared to do that, as I broke an ABS sensor and spring nut that holds the E-brake tension spring anyway...

 

[Sharad]

man card revoked...

Here's my ProCharged street car.



Man car restored?




Sherwin- your whine does sound like improper backlash.

 

[Sherwin]

took everything apart again last night and figured 3 problems. 1)Backlash was 0.005, way too tight when spec is 0.008-0.015, preference given to 0.012-0.015. I solved this, set lash at 0.011. 2)Pinion bearing was set way too tight. 3)Pinion was riding on the heel of the ring gear.

I solved it 90%. Still have a slight whine on decel/coasting, but I wonder if its something that will go away after a few "break in" miles?? The car sure pulls a lot harder!!!

Now to figure out where this ABS sensor connector is...I lose if after the rubber grommett in the floor...any hints?

Also, does anyone know where to get brake bolts? I broke the E-brake spring bolt

 

[usaf_branham]

Man car restored?

Man card restored...

I was expecting a smokey burn out, or the front wheels getting yanked off the ground. That is one nice / nasty fox.

 

[jibloni]

usually whining means your not shimmed right. if your back lash is correct specs

 

[usaf_branham]

another back from the dead. why are you digging up graves? I have seen you post to some stuff from YEARS ago?!