nmcgrawj
Advanced Member
Is our timing THAT messed up to make this worth it performane wise? Or is it really just worth it for looks/unqiue braggin rights part?
Distributorless Ignition System thoughts
- Thread starter BlackVert
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SorsCode
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Like i mentioned in my first post. I have a machine shop make the timing ring fit on my 28oz balancer from an explorer balancer. Since it was there first time I took them a few days just to figure out how to do it.
nmcgrawj said:
The distributor isn't that bad. Its just as time and wear when you start loosing timing. The other thing with the Coil on Plug you have no plug wires going bad. With a distrbutor you have some many things that can affect your timing that can go bad. With Distributorless Ignition you eliminate alot of the problems. Plus braggin rights is nice also.. I love the look of no distributor and no plug wires running all over the place.
GTA_V6_Mustang
Active Member
Call me old fashioned, but I personally love the look of a dizzy and some nice thick wires.
Dont ge me wrong the idea of a COP system for our 5.0's seems kewl enough, especially the obd2 factor. But like I said for my 5.0 I will stick with an old fashioned dizzy.
Dont ge me wrong the idea of a COP system for our 5.0's seems kewl enough, especially the obd2 factor. But like I said for my 5.0 I will stick with an old fashioned dizzy.
so danny,
thanks for all the info. you clearly know how all this works and are the guy i'd look to for info on this.
i think i'd like to go to a DIS without the COP and keep my current computer, staying OBD1. maybe later, after the DIS thing is working, we can look into the COP thing more...
can you put together a whole kit for a 410 with wiring and instructions? including the trigger wheel attachment for the balancer too? or would it be better if i sent my balancer to you to get the trigger wheel installed on it? i don't trust myself to be able to relay the right information to a local machine shop.
if you don't want to post how much it would cost in this thread, then please feel free to send me a PM
thanks
- chris
thanks for all the info. you clearly know how all this works and are the guy i'd look to for info on this.
i think i'd like to go to a DIS without the COP and keep my current computer, staying OBD1. maybe later, after the DIS thing is working, we can look into the COP thing more...
can you put together a whole kit for a 410 with wiring and instructions? including the trigger wheel attachment for the balancer too? or would it be better if i sent my balancer to you to get the trigger wheel installed on it? i don't trust myself to be able to relay the right information to a local machine shop.
if you don't want to post how much it would cost in this thread, then please feel free to send me a PM
thanks
- chris
SorsCode
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Where did you get the wiring information to make all this work. I can handle any level of technical information you can throw at me so do not hesitate. I work for Denso and repair the equipment that builds all of the engine cpu's for our customers. Throw it at me and I will deal with the rest. I am looking into OBD 1 crank trigger. NOT COP, just the 99 V6 upgrade you mentioned.
Labora
Founding Member
Good info here, posting to bookmark for later. Going to COP is tempting since I will be going to Megasquirt.
You can do it with stand alone systems like the AEM, but I don't see a huge advantage. Anything you can do with a COP, you can do with an MSD Digital 7. As unreliable as any MSD product is, it's still better than an AEM.
Kurt
Kurt
So much good info in this thread. From 2007 to 2013 and now 2024, I'm extremely interested the distributorless setup to run with my Holley Terminator X. A guy on utube installed LS7 coils on his SBF, but didn't give all the details. I'm wondering how could a piece together using the MSD Cam sync distributor and potentially oem components to complete the setup.
SorsCode
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
M.F. Kustoms, now makes a cam/crank harness for the Explorer Cam Sync and will work for most Hall Effect Crank sensor or factory Ford Explorer. Since you are Holley it is fairly easy once you have that harness. Once you know which coils you will be running (LSx vs IGN1A) then you would make your coil harness and pin in your 8 coil trigger wires. I can walk through all of it.
He's been holding out on us. I looked all over the Resource section for "How To" install and nothing.
SorsCode
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
I was hoping to find out which coils, so I could do a write up, but crickets.He's been holding out on us. I looked all over the Resource section for "How To" install and nothing.
SorsCode
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Okay, since no response, I'm going to respond with Smart Coils/IGN1A setup. This is my preferred coil when going CnP anymore. Back when I first did this stuff back in the day, I was running waste spark on a factory ECU using an EDIS8 module and 99-04 4.6L GT Coils.
The smart coil has 5 pins (A,B,C,D,E)
Pin A: This will be your trigger pin. On the ECU side, (I use Holley EFI in my example), EST A Out, would be your trigger pin for Cylinder 1, B = Cylinder 2, and so on.
Pin B: This is your coil trigger ground connection, these should all tie together on all 8 coils and then be pinned to J1B Pin 14.
Pin C: This is your Cylinder Head ground, VERY IMPORTANT, Coils for 1,2,3,4 all need grounded to Passenger side head, and 5,6,7,8 all need grounded to the Drivers side head.
Pin D: This is your Battery Ground, DO NOT ground to your chassis, go straight to the Battery
Pin E: This is your 12V power feed.
How I handle Pin E, I prefer to run 2 x 40amp relays with 2 x 40 amp fuses. Passenger side would all be fed from one relay, and the Drives side from the other. At the same time, this is where I move my Injector power feeds to these relays. This way if one side's relay fails or fuse pops, neither the coils or injectors are firing.
With Smart coils, you do not want them powered and not doing anything for an extended period of time. This is where it is a good idea to either do one of the following:
1: Your positive side of your Relays coil, tied to your fuel pump trigger wire. This way the coils only have power when the fuel pump is running. This is what I call the "easy" way and is what most do
2 (My way): Utilize one of your outputs on your ECU (Holley, MegaSquirt, whatever) to trigger the relay once Battery voltage is above 10v and RPM is above 100rpm (cranking).
I prefer the second method, because if I'm wanting to do testing on my fuel pump or drain my tank, my coils are not sitting there with power. I can also build in safeties to where if my fuel pressure drops, oil pressure drops, use your imagination, I can have that output turned off and cut all fuel and spark to the engine, shutting it off.
LS Coils, I follow the same process, the difference is its a four wire system versus five.
Pin A: Gets pinned up just like Pin C on an IGN1A
Pin B: Gets pinned up just like Pin B on an IGN1A
Pin C: Gets pinned up just like Pin A on an IGN1A
Pin D: Gets pinned up just like Pin E on an IGN1A
The smart coil has 5 pins (A,B,C,D,E)
Pin A: This will be your trigger pin. On the ECU side, (I use Holley EFI in my example), EST A Out, would be your trigger pin for Cylinder 1, B = Cylinder 2, and so on.
Pin B: This is your coil trigger ground connection, these should all tie together on all 8 coils and then be pinned to J1B Pin 14.
Pin C: This is your Cylinder Head ground, VERY IMPORTANT, Coils for 1,2,3,4 all need grounded to Passenger side head, and 5,6,7,8 all need grounded to the Drivers side head.
Pin D: This is your Battery Ground, DO NOT ground to your chassis, go straight to the Battery
Pin E: This is your 12V power feed.
How I handle Pin E, I prefer to run 2 x 40amp relays with 2 x 40 amp fuses. Passenger side would all be fed from one relay, and the Drives side from the other. At the same time, this is where I move my Injector power feeds to these relays. This way if one side's relay fails or fuse pops, neither the coils or injectors are firing.
With Smart coils, you do not want them powered and not doing anything for an extended period of time. This is where it is a good idea to either do one of the following:
1: Your positive side of your Relays coil, tied to your fuel pump trigger wire. This way the coils only have power when the fuel pump is running. This is what I call the "easy" way and is what most do
2 (My way): Utilize one of your outputs on your ECU (Holley, MegaSquirt, whatever) to trigger the relay once Battery voltage is above 10v and RPM is above 100rpm (cranking).
I prefer the second method, because if I'm wanting to do testing on my fuel pump or drain my tank, my coils are not sitting there with power. I can also build in safeties to where if my fuel pressure drops, oil pressure drops, use your imagination, I can have that output turned off and cut all fuel and spark to the engine, shutting it off.
LS Coils, I follow the same process, the difference is its a four wire system versus five.
Pin A: Gets pinned up just like Pin C on an IGN1A
Pin B: Gets pinned up just like Pin B on an IGN1A
Pin C: Gets pinned up just like Pin A on an IGN1A
Pin D: Gets pinned up just like Pin E on an IGN1A
Last edited:
One minor edit suggestion. This is the only part I didn't pickup right away and had to read over a couple of times. It could very well be just me tho. I understood every other portion and I've never done it before so...
SorsCode
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Done, I did write this up fairly quick.One minor edit suggestion. This is the only part I didn't pickup right away and had to read over a couple of times. It could very well be just me tho. I understood every other portion and I've never done it before so...
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