Engine 351w 408 Stroker Build

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Correct and yet as long as they pass inspection Woody still uses them .......... IIRC that's an F4TE roller block

So that tells me what ? No one has been able to determine why the crack occurs yet someone as well known as Ford Strokers still uses the blocks as long as it isn't present . Many real world people making good horsepower on them , so again what are we getting at here besides this being a pissing contest of who knows more or less ?
 
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Correct and yet as long as they pass inspection Woody still uses them
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yes but he would prefer to sell one that he knew for a fact was stronger especially in "high horse" builds. any intelligent person would.


IIRC that's an F4TE roller block
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You recall correctly.


So that tells me what ?
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i suggest you read the previous posts.



No one has been able to determine why the crack occurs
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its obvious why it occurs, it's a stress crack. if the block was stronger, it would not break. this is not rocket science.


j yet someone as well known as Ford Strokers still uses the blocks as long as it isn't present .
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see answer above. also rell me exactly how many engies he has built to a "true" 600 hp and how many runs they have made with high traction tires.


Many real world people making good horsepower on them
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well i can make 1000 hp with one in my fantasy world, IF it will hold together, but "no warrantees or guarantees expressed or implied.


so again what are we getting at here besides this being a ****ing contest of who knows more or less ?
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I suggest you read the previous posts.
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yes but he would prefer to sell one that he knew for a fact was stronger especially in "high horse" builds. any intelligent person would.
So why is he as well as others even entertaining that block and not completely buying up as many early blocks as possible?


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You recall correctly.



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i suggest you read the previous posts.




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its obvious why it occurs, it's a stress crack. if the block was stronger, it would not break. this is not rocket science.

If it was so obvious then why would Woody make a claim himself that he has seen it out of normal mediocore motors such as ambulance or pickup truck cores yet hasn't in a high hp build as a failure point ? And leaning toward the possibilities of fleet vehicles being poorly maintained or over heated where as personal engines may not have been hence seeing the crack in some instances and not others.

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see answer above. also rell me exactly how many engies he has built to a "true" 600 hp and how many runs they have made with high traction tires.
I used woody as the example being that you used his picture as the source. I know a few people who have made good power and not had issues.


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well i can make 1000 hp with one in my fantasy world, IF it will hold together, but "no warrantees or guarantees expressed or implied.

If we were making 1000 hp period in reality or fantasy money wouldn't be an issue anyway and we wouldnt be wasting time with a factory block to do it. And isnt that racing - " no warranties or guarantees expressed or implied'? Were not at hyundai waiting on a 100k mile warranty when we build a high perf engine so if there were a failure its just that a failure.

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I suggest you read the previous posts.
Ive read all of your posts just replying back with food for thought and making conversation . My post about being ignored was you continuing to answer any other post but skipping anything i addressed to you. I am bowing out of this convo now seeing as your beginning to seem to have an attitude and getting smug over the debate here.
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wel,l you will have to ask him because i can't speak for him or others in this regard but my guess is that it is because they are cheap and readily available and still "works", but again, would they prefer it was stronger, i think that's a no brainer. would they prefer it be a boss or dart block? i certainly hope so.

also since it is a stress crack and is occuring on stock blocks, i think it is obvious it is not going to be peoples first choice if there was something better for a comparable price avail.

take another member here saying that i should not suggest 4 bolts for a 600 hp build because they op is trying to build a "budget" 600 hp build...ok, this particular op is not going to spend the money on a really high quality block. no ine can make him.

if by early blocks you mean the ones the other guy here referred to, well good luck dinding one and when ya do it probably ain't gonna be 100.00 and if irs a 69 or 70 its worth around 800.00 where i am.


ok now lets say a person or their loved one needs a new heart valve and the dr says, well we have one thats been PROVEN to be durable for x amount of dollars that we know you can run a marathon with and we have one that is obviously marginal for a lot less that we know you can walk around with but i wouldn't recommend doing any exercise or skiing or hiking etc., and there is no guarantee on it, which one do ya want?
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ok heres a question for ya. below is just 1 of trickflows trackmaster cams. it is relatively moderate in size and is advertised to spin only 5500 rpms in a 350 chevy engine with good heads. all the trackmasters are billet steel.

Is billet steel stronger or weaker than iron cams?

Is it more, or less, susceptible to harmonics than iron cams?

It is a fact that there are dozens of cams from other mfgs that are FAR "bigger" than this that are iron.

Why?

Is trick flow stupid?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51403001
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i really dont know if i want to feed the troll like this, but i think theres a few points that need to be brought up (or really, just clarified) here.

1) the factory 351w have been proven at the 600-700hp (and more) level that the op is looking for for decades. we arent talking about a 302 here that will break with a sneeze. obviously if you want to make 800+ or spin insane rpms (or just want the extra 1/8" of bore for a 427), then yes a dart block is a much easier decision.

2) the earlier blocks ARE better than the late-model roller blocks (thicker webs, possibly better material).

3) there is NO factory 4-bolt 351w, and modding one to 4-bolt will probably weaken it rather than help it

4) all a main girdle will do is keep the parts together AFTER it splits down the middle, they dont do much in the stability department.

5) non-roller blocks should tend to be more available than the roller ones (the later was only made for 3-4 years, non-rollers for decades), should not be a huge difference in price unless you're looking for a specific year range (which can make a strength difference, but not one big enough to really pick one over the other unless going for absolute max power, which a dart makes more sense for anyway)

6) the best explanation ive heard for the roller "stress crack" mentioned is most likely because of poor maintenance and overheating in the environment in which those motors operated (ALL roller blocks come from trucks and vans, probably most of which have been beaten on by company drivers for 200k+miles in 3/4 and 1-ton trucks, most 1/2 tons will have the 300 or 302). that said, a non-roller block is still probably a better choice for a 408.

7) unless tfs changed manufacturers AGAIN (i believe crane used to make their cams until they went under a few years ago) those cams are NOT billet, they are cast. the earlier ones (and if they changed suppliers again, maybe the new ones) are fully machined, the later ones are more cheaply made and you'll see the as-cast finish between lobes (and yes, i have both, theres even an old thread on here about it).

8) a 408 (or if you end up with a dart block, go 427) will be PLENTY "torquey," thats still a whole lotta cubes with a fairly long crank throw, and provided he feeds it right, should make power just about everywhere. heads in the 200cc class (tfs 11r 205, afr 205 or 225, hell if you have the coin some high port 240s would be awesome), a super-vic intake, and a good custom cam should get you there without even being really "exotic" these days.
 
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FYI -Below is a photo of a crack that is too frequently found on original, untouched, BOX STOCK stock 210 hp 351 roller engines...but hey, its fine for a measly 600 hp application.
http://i.imgur.com/qODEh.jpg

Any more questions?
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Correct and yet as long as they pass inspection Woody still uses them .......... IIRC that's an F4TE roller block

So that tells me what ? No one has been able to determine why the crack occurs yet someone as well known as Ford Strokers still uses the blocks as long as it isn't present . Many real world people making good horsepower on them , so again what are we getting at here besides this being a ****ing contest of who knows more or less ?

That is a crack on the number 2 or number 4 cam bearing journal. We see this a bit, i dont think hp has anything to do with it. I believe its the environment these engines may live in. Trucks, vans, buses with little maintenance, chronic overheating etc.. I have never seen one with bigger cracks or any cracks that have run.
 
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Ok lets try this, your building a motor to put everything in your rearview mirror, how would you build your 408?
To try an get back on track I would stick with a roller block, factory. Do your 408 stroke, etc. I think you'd be safe with 28oz. external balanced SCAT crank, I beam rods, forged pistons, & Trick Flow/AFR Heads in the 190-ish range. Honestly though it's hard to suggest parts when you aren't sure if you're going to add a power adder later. Seems like it'd be right on the fence (limits of the block). If you want to run boost, then the setup would change and every part you buy for a n/a 408w would need to be upgraded as well as the block. Sorry if I'm rambling.
 
That is a crack on the number 2 or number 4 cam bearing journal. We see this a bit, i dont think hp has anything to do with it. I believe its the environment these engines may live in. Trucks, vans, buses with little maintenance, chronic overheating etc.. I have never seen one with bigger cracks or any cracks that have run.
I mentioned that in my reply to his reply
 
very entertaining read.. some great information so... i will pose my question. i have a 351w got a good deal on a cks-w351ee crank and now looking to make some decisions on what i should really do next. i am on a major budget so i am trying to use as much of what i have to make the upgrades work. not going to be daily driver. performer rpm cam and intake, heads with a little work done.
thinking about changing came to x303 but want to take care of the strocker project first then see where that takes me.
can i take the motor out swap cranks and not have issues? or will i need to start fresh?
 
very entertaining read.. some great information so... i will pose my question. i have a 351w got a good deal on a cks-w351ee crank and now looking to make some decisions on what i should really do next. i am on a major budget so i am trying to use as much of what i have to make the upgrades work. not going to be daily driver. performer rpm cam and intake, heads with a little work done.
thinking about changing came to x303 but want to take care of the strocker project first then see where that takes me.
can i take the motor out swap cranks and not have issues? or will i need to start fresh?
Please start a new thread, a fresh post draws more attention than one that is over a year old
 
Im looking into a 408 stroker build and i got quite a handful of questions, i want to build it right the first time and i want it to last, i would love to get 500-600 horsepower from it, it would be a daily driver yet i would take it racing every weekend, gas mileage i dont care about, i just want it to dust everyone i race and sound killer when i drive around the town, i would like no more then 600 hp and id like it to be one torquey son of a gun to, can you guys give me some build advice? Also whats this ive been reading that 351w are non rollers or roller compatible? Hows it roller compatible if it needs all this extra fuuhoo?? And can you turn a non roller block into a roller block, would it be stronger?
Here's a list of Some of the parts in my mustang an on motor it runs 10.20's @ 130 mph.
91 mustang driven on the street but just to local car show. It's not very pleasant for long distance drives. So it wudnt be practical for everyday use.
Car weighs 2965 with me in it
351w 1974 mexican block.
408 stroker
Eagle H-Beam rods
Eagle 4340 Crank
JE pistons
12.5 - 1 compression
Comp Cams custom ground hydraulic roller cam ( .580/.585 ) lift
Trick flow 1.7 Rockers
Comp cams racing 4130 pushrods
Comp cams racing roller lifters w/link bar
Edelbrock victor jr. Heads
Edelbrock victor jr. Intake
Prosystems 980 custom built carb.
PA performance c4
Teamz racing supension in rear
UPR tubular w/150 lb Springs w/ strange 10 way adjustable up front.
Those are some of the basic mods done to my car. That will put you mid 500 hp
Recently added 150 shot of juice.