2010 Camaro

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Maybe I'm overlooking or misunderstanding something, but I was under the impression that we were talking about stock engines? In my understanding, bolt-ons still equate to a stock engine...

Well....I guess if you mean internals, then yes...its a stock motor. I myself feel that if your adding boltons...your increasing the Stock power....now becoming modified power. When most ppl say these times are stock numbers...most mean down to the tailpipes.

With a full exhaust Lid and Tune...most LS1s are putting 330-340RWhp, dipping in the mid to high 12s easy. No one ever claims "Hey these are my stock motored Times" Going from 300-305 Rwhp to the above mentioned is a result of modifing, which makes your times Modified from stock.

If the word stockmotored is in the conversation, I think ppl take it as such..without any modifications leading to higher horsepower output other than factory.:nice:
 
Here's a nice "LS1 story" for all of you.

So, it's late 1997 and the LS1 F-Bodies just made their debut. Motor Trend had just tested one and busted out a 13.7x.

There I am, cruising "Highway 100," otherwise known as "Route 100" in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I'm behind the wheel of my 1994 B4C with its Flowmaster muffler, Moroso CAI, throttlebody airfoil, and Hypertech Power Programmer when I spot a brand spanking new Z28 sitting in the Super America gas station. I pull in, and start talking to the owner. "Hey man, nice car! What's it run?" He tells me, "13.7x." I say, "Cool, what'd it trap?" He leans over into his car, and when he climbs out, to my surprise, he's holding a trusty old copy of Motor Trend in his hand. "It traps 10x." I said, "I thought you ran it?" He replies, "Well, Motor Trend ran a 13.7x, so I didn't need to take it to the track." :rlaugh:

Well, the word was already out that these LS1 cars were crazy-fast, and destroying everything in their wake. I had to see what they were made of. I went out gunning for them, searching high and low, because I just had to have a piece of one of them. And so it was...

The LS1 Z28 yelled out a shriek as it dropped down a few gears, and I watched out the side window as the front end lifted, and then I watched as the nose slowly disappeared behind the passenger seat of my Camaro.

The race was over, and there I was, tickling nearly 100 mph. We slowed down, and the defeated LS1 owner asked me to follow him into a gas station so he could check out my car. I obliged.

"How...but....I don't understand! I have an LS1! They're supposed to be faster than an LT1! WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY CAR?" :nonono: Well, like a good sport, I told him, "Nothing's wrong with your car. It's simply just not as fast as mine." Poor fellow... :rolleyes:

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this particular Z28 never made it to the track, and after catching wind of Evan Smith running a 12.87, I'm sure he's telling everyone that his LS1 ran a 12.87 in the quarter mile, and if not, I'm sure he's telling everyone he dynoed 300 rwhp and runs a 13.2 @ 107 mph.

Well, everybody, I guess that means that LT1s must run 14.90 @ 93 mph, because that's what R&T got out of one in a test. I guess I owned a factory freak, because I consistently turned in 14.60s @ 98.x mph, and I know it was due to my lack of experience on the track. The fastest I ran in the car was a 14.1x @ 99.7 mph, and even then, I swear this car was capable of 13s with a capable driver. BUT, it's my car, and I ran a 14.1x. That's the way it is. If that's what I ran while driving it, that's what it runs, period. It wouldn't matter a bit if Evan Smith drove it and turned a 13.5x out of it, or whatever, because Evan Smith doesn't drive my car.
 
^^^ Great point indeed. True are cars are only as fast as its operators !!! WELL SAID :)

I think the biggest arguement is the Capability factor. What can the car actually do...thats the whole argument from how ive seen it. Honestly unless youve seen certain times out of cars then I guess its all speculation....especially if you doubt it eh.
 
I'm sure a 94-95 GT can hit 12's with bolt ons. 5.0s starve for air, isn't heads and a intake manifold considered bolt ons? Because I would think with good heads/intake manifold combo and the supporting mods those cars with hit high 12's. If you want to know more about what 5.0s are capable of then go ask around in the 5.0 forum. Alot of guys over here myself included have never owned a 5.0 Mustang.

From what I've seen at the track, LS1 Camaros can run low 13's. Most drivers hit mid 13's and are a drivers race with the 05+ GT's. Or the 99+ Cobras, the LS1 has a little bit of a edge over the 99-01 Cobra in the 1/4. The LT1's I've seen hit low 14's and I've heard a couple of times of people hitting 13.9. I hear the same about the 99-04 GT's, but I hear about them hitting 13.9's more often. My old 01 with flowmasters and a K&N filter did 14.1with a 2.4 60' time.

SS02, it's cool if you come on here posting about Camaros and such, but sometimes I feel like you might be doing it to just get Mustang guys over here upset? Maybe I'm wrong and just maybe you come across like that. But I personally don't have any problem with you. But I just wanted say, since Camaro guys are always talking about how the Mustang is a little bit behind the Camaro that the 03-04 Cobras are still faster then the brand new Camaro. So this argument can go both ways.:flag:
 
^^^ Great point indeed. True are cars are only as fast as its operators !!! WELL SAID :)

I think the biggest arguement is the Capability factor. What can the car actually do...thats the whole argument from how ive seen it. Honestly unless youve seen certain times out of cars then I guess its all speculation....especially if you doubt it eh.

Well, I don't believe any times until I see them myself. Now, I after making the "my buddy did this" comment, I'm embarassed to say that I had a buddy that had what was known to be the "factory freak car" of the area when I was living in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He had a 1993 6spd Z28 and claims were out that he belted out a 13.65 @ 105 mph with nothing more than a Flowmaster exhaust and a CAI. I didn't believe it for a second.

As chances would have it, Scott was hitting the track and asked him if I wanted to meet him up there. "Sure, why not..." Sure enough, that car was running mid 13s @ 104-106 mph. While I never saw this car run the acclaimed 13.65 E.T., it did manage to turn a 13.7x @ 106 mph. Given all of the variables, I tend to believe that this car really did run that 13.65 E.T.

Back in 1997, R&T had a Vortech-supercharged LT1 Z28 that they had tested. They managed to run a "blistering" 13.6 @ 107 mph, or something like that. Even at the time I thought, "This time sucks! There is no way!" Well, again, as fate would have it, Scott supercharged the "factory freak" and hit the track. He was turning consistent 12.30s-12.50s @ 112+ mph. Another one of Scott's friends, Jeremy, had a real nice LT1 Z28 that was supercharged, and he wound up running in the 12.50 range as well.

I'm sure a 94-95 GT can hit 12's with bolt ons. 5.0s starve for air, isn't heads and a intake manifold considered bolt ons? Because I would think with good heads/intake manifold combo and the supporting mods those cars with hit high 12's. If you want to know more about what 5.0s are capable of then go ask around in the 5.0 forum. Alot of guys over here myself included have never owned a 5.0 Mustang.

From what I've seen at the track, LS1 Camaros can run low 13's. Most drivers hit mid 13's and are a drivers race with the 05+ GT's. Or the 99+ Cobras, the LS1 has a little bit of a edge over the 99-01 Cobra in the 1/4. The LT1's I've seen hit low 14's and I've heard a couple of times of people hitting 13.9. I hear the same about the 99-04 GT's, but I hear about them hitting 13.9's more often. My old 01 with flowmasters and a K&N filter did 14.1with a 2.4 60' time.

SS02, it's cool if you come on here posting about Camaros and such, but sometimes I feel like you might be doing it to just get Mustang guys over here upset? Maybe I'm wrong and just maybe you come across like that. But I personally don't have any problem with you. But I just wanted say, since Camaro guys are always talking about how the Mustang is a little bit behind the Camaro that the 03-04 Cobras are still faster then the brand new Camaro. So this argument can go both ways.:flag:

I tend to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but in the grand scheme of things, my feelings about it, depending on the claim, are, "If I didn't see it, it didn't happen." Being a domestic Muscle Car fan, I'd love to see and believe every claim I've ever heard.
 
:flag:
I'm sure a 94-95 GT can hit 12's with bolt ons. 5.0s starve for air, isn't heads and a intake manifold considered bolt ons? Because I would think with good heads/intake manifold combo and the supporting mods those cars with hit high 12's. If you want to know more about what 5.0s are capable of then go ask around in the 5.0 forum. Alot of guys over here myself included have never owned a 5.0 Mustang.

From what I've seen at the track, LS1 Camaros can run low 13's. Most drivers hit mid 13's and are a drivers race with the 05+ GT's. Or the 99+ Cobras, the LS1 has a little bit of a edge over the 99-01 Cobra in the 1/4. The LT1's I've seen hit low 14's and I've heard a couple of times of people hitting 13.9. I hear the same about the 99-04 GT's, but I hear about them hitting 13.9's more often. My old 01 with flowmasters and a K&N filter did 14.1with a 2.4 60' time.

SS02, it's cool if you come on here posting about Camaros and such, but sometimes I feel like you might be doing it to just get Mustang guys over here upset? Maybe I'm wrong and just maybe you come across like that. But I personally don't have any problem with you. But I just wanted say, since Camaro guys are always talking about how the Mustang is a little bit behind the Camaro that the 03-04 Cobras are still faster then the brand new Camaro. So this argument can go both ways.:flag:

Bud, you need to read the entire forums. Im the one being called out, not the other way around. Just read a couple pages:)

As far as the bolt ons go, yeah , I guess you can consider Heads and Intake a bolton, but dont consider it "Stock Motored" like what this conversation is about to begin with. I could see his argument if he said " Stock Shortblock", then that would imply the above mentioned. With a H/I Full Exhaust Gears, Slicks, Suspension....sure, Ill submit that the 94 can run high 12s:nice:
 
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Bud, you need to read the entire forums. Im the one being called out, not the other way around. Just read a couple pages:)

As far as the bolt ons go, yeah , I guess you can consider Heads and Intake a bolton, but dont consider it "Stock Motored" like what this conversation is about to begin with. I could see his argument if he said " Stock Shortblock", then that would imply the above mentioned. With a H/I Full Exhaust Gears, Slicks, Suspension....sure, Ill submit that the 94 can run high 12s:nice:

I'd agree. A stock motor is just that, a stock motor. While I'd agree that heads are a "bolt-on," I think it's an extenuating circumstance. Heads affect a lot more than just airflow from an "outside source" like an exhaust or cold air intake.
 
"If I didn't see it, it didn't happen."

This is the best qoote of the whole 6 page thread, I don't really think anyone is calling out SS02 [o.k. except me.lol] we are just disagreeing with him because [we have never seen it] but he keeps insisting the we believe it so now we have 6 pages of yes they do no they don't..
But like he said in the begining this will more then likely turn into a 20 page war.
 
Again, you probably read one post, made a statement, and have absolutly no idea what were talking about. Read the thread pumpkin, then make a comment. You asked me to show you low 13 runnin LS1s, and I did. So dont get all fissy that I showed you.

Hell one of the admins came in and said..."Every one knows their low 13 runners, who said they dont" ......Its getting deep around your feet.

Are argument was about tenths of seconds on the LS1, not actually Seconds on a 94 GT.....big difference in conversation.
 
Look, I don't care how many videos there are I have not seen it in person,Why don't you understand that, I can show you videos of H/C/I Ls1s running 13.3 and you would say [well its the driver] so claim what you want better yet your right all LS1s run low 13s Happy!!! :D
 
"If I didn't see it, it didn't happen."

This is the best qoote of the whole 6 page thread, I don't really think anyone is calling out SS02 [o.k. except me.lol] we are just disagreeing with him because [we have never seen it] but he keeps insisting the we believe it so now we have 6 pages of yes they do no they don't..
But like he said in the begining this will more then likely turn into a 20 page war.

This thread is going no-where fast.

Flame session. :flame:

I must disagree on this being a "20 page war" or a "flame session." What I'm observing here is a bunch of guys debating on the performance of two vehicles; mainly the performance of an SN95 Mustang and an LS1 F-Body.

IMO, I believe there have been a few very minor "heated" moments, but for the most part, I believe everyone has been civil towards each other for the most part.

Ok, we really haven't made much headway, but I'm hoping that out of all of this, we all wind up satisfied. I get to see a timeslip/dyno of a BONE STOCK LS1 putting out 300 rwhp or running a 13.20, someone else gets to see the Camaro run a 12 flat 1/4 mile, and someone else gets to see the "stock motored" SN95 Mustang pull off a 12 second 1/4 mile.

I hope that we can all walk away from this thread satisfied with the proofs we are seeking, but more importantly, all walk away as friends who helped each other out. :nice: