331 Turbo project thread

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by FastDriver, Nov 25, 2008.


  1. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    It was a fun 3 days or so, but now there's oil in the coolant and I need to figure out what's gone wrong.

    I'm in the middle of a compression check. So far:

    1. 151psi
    2. I'm on this cylinder now. This plug is the most difficult to access. I've got the plug out and it looks fine. I'm having difficulty tightening the compression tester adapter in the plug hole and will go get a set of adjustable head ratchet wrenches tomorrow morning before I finish.
    3. not done
    4. not done
    5. 122
    6. 124
    7. 142
    8. 144

    I don't like what I see in 7 and 8, and I'm not that experienced with blown HGs, but I'm fairly confident that if I took out a piston, the numbers would have been considerably worse. That's not to say that I'm certain I won't find a pleasant surprise in one of the last 3 cylinders.

    The AFR went strangely lean today. I believe this to be the result of the engine missing and dumping the fuel and O2 from at least one of the cylinders into the exhaust. The BS3 is probably trying to compensate by richening the mixture. The mixture at cruise pegged out the O2 sensor at an incredibly rich 9.1:1. I'm pretty sure the BS3 is dumping fuel through those 120# injectors trying to get it back to the target, but because of the miss, no O2 is being burned in the cylinder. So no matter how much fuel goes in, the O2 sensor still reads O2 in the exhaust and interprets that as a lean condition. The only other explanation I can think of is that a fuel injector clogged or something's wrong with the pump.

    I'll buy a couple drain pans and take a closer look at the oil and coolant tomorrow. The oil on the dipstick show no signs of coolant. At this point with the crazy readings I've gotten for AFRs and boost pressure, I'm hoping it's JUST a head gasket. This is all very tiresome after getting the best parts for the car and the best people to work on it. I wouldn't expect this to happen. I'm not ready to point any fingers or raise any hell. Was it the tune? Was it the build? Who cares? I just want a running, driving car with no major issues. Too much to ask, I guess, despite the time and $ invested. I'm probably just going to take the car to a shop in Atlanta and let them tear it down to prevent any hassle. I'm tired of this ****...

    More to follow,

    Chris
  2. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    Drained the coolant. It is not oil! It is a bunch of rust and crap, probably from interior corrosion in the radiator, and rust in the block's water jackets.

    I overreacted, and I apologize for that.

    Chris
  3. LaserSVT

    LaserSVT "WTF!? Why is every bolt a different size!?" Founding Member

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    If you dont know, now you know ni....
    But why is the comperssion 20% lower on 7&8? That aint good :shrug:
  4. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    That's true.* It could be a headgasket, especially considering the cylinders are adjacent, but it would possibly be the rocker arm adjustment etc...* I'll do a wet-test soon, hopefully tomorrow.* That will tell me if it's the rings or something else.

    120ish isn't good, but it is drivable there.

    Chris

    Edit (update):

    The compression worked out to:

    4. 144 8. 142
    3. 146 7. 144
    2. 150 6. 122
    1. 151 5. 126
  5. Rick 91GT

    Rick 91GT SN Certified Technician Site Sponsor

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    Good idea the wet test will help fill in the blanks... a little. If you take it to Proline, they are considered one of the best, your in good hands.

    I had a blower car pump 145psi on nearly all cylinders, even the one that was missing 2" of land from the top of the piston:eek: Do a leak down test.....

    Good Luck
  6. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    Oh, yeah. I mentioned it in my compression test thread in tech, but the wet test did not significantly bring up the compression. It went from 126/121 in cylinders 5&6 to 130/125 or so. I think that indicates pretty clearly that the rings are not overly worn or the walls scarred due to some rich condition or "washing' of the cylinder walls.

    I've got the valve cover off now, but am going to wait until saturday to do the work since I just started the Captain's Career Course. I'm busting my ass just to keep up with the assignments right now.

    Chris
  7. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    To clarify, the wet compression test showing a minimal pressure increase is a good sign. The rings and walls are much more difficult to fix than a leaky HG, or a hanging valve.

    The work I intend to do on Saturday includes retorquing the heads to 110/100 ft-lbs, and then readjusting the rockers. And, if that doesn't fix the condition, then I'm moving on.

    There are other priorities. The motor will run as-is.

    Chris
  8. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    I found the solution to a lot of the problems with my car. I wrote the guy who assembled the motor for me a message and instead of retyping everything, here's a copy/paste:

  9. Rick 91GT

    Rick 91GT SN Certified Technician Site Sponsor

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    Chris, I try to run individual sources when at all possible, especially when they are giving feedback to a boost controller or EFI system. If you have to, drill and tap the manifold so you do not have sources fighting for signal.

    Glad you found that issue, it explains the non coresponding readings you had... I still use a lot of high quality rubber hose with no issues, I also run braided line at times as well. I'd be intrested to see what the "other hose is called.
  10. Strippt88

    Strippt88 New Member

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    Well, as long as its not an internal problem, thats good news! Braided for everything:shrug:? Pretty soon, when folks look under the hood, their gonna think you're actually in the Air Force:rlaugh:!
  11. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    The car is continuing to use coolant up. I did another compression test today. No change in the other cylinders, but the two low cylinders are even lower reading about 116psi each. I think it's time to pull the driver's head off and find out what's going on.

    Oh, and I also pulled out the 13psi wastegate spring and put a 3psi spring in. That definitely explains why the boost was too high.

    The other hose is called "push-loc" To me it looks like rubber hose with different fittings, but apparently there's a lot more to it.
  12. S&B

    S&B I hate my CT. :(

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    I dont like the sound of that car eating fluid. It really makes it hard to work on a project when you know you have a big problem but cant seem to want to motivate to really get to it. I faught overheating for a year, hell last year I never drove my SC coupe b/c the problem.

    I know one of my heads was leaking coolant where one of the head bolts goes in, and in the begining it would get sucked into the engine. Once we fixed that my life was better. Your problem sounds a bit more serous than that, keep us updated
  13. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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    how much did you drive it leaking coolant? did it leak into the oil pan, My old novi 2000 motor blew 2 head gaskets, and i didnt drive the car more than 10 minutes with the oil being contaminated and when i pulled that motor the bearings showed signs of contamination...
  14. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    You ain't kidding. I'm in the Captain's career course and have so little time that it's a huge pain in the ass trying to fix these small issues. I really envisioned a drivable awesome street car after my performance shop having the car and almost a blank check for 2 years. I contacted the owner who I had a pretty good relationship with and asked him how he'd support me with the problem since its been using coolant since it came off of the trailer. He said that it wasn't using coolant and that the problem must've been in the tune. He told me to get the car back to his shop in OH (about a 10 hour drive) or that he'd help me get it there and they'd do whatever work I needed. After the difficulty getting the car back after so long, and given the leaks and poor attention to a lot of small details, I'm just not willing to send it back up there, again. They got the big things right, I think... The shortblock, the turbo-kit, the fuel system, the suspension. However, all of the small things, including things I haven't mentioned here, are just so dissappointing.

    The amount of money, time, research, and thought put into this car is ludicrous, and I just wish I could drive the damned thing. It was sort of my dream after spending 14 months in Iraq that I'd come back, hop in the car, turn the key and go! hmpfff... Alas, nothing good in life ever comes easy.

    I'll keep this thread updated when I figure it out. I'm trying to get in touch with Proline racing in Atlanta, who has an awesome reputation, but it's very difficult because it's probably 2 hours away from me and I'm going full-time right now. So, I just don't know how I'm going to get the car up to them.

    I've driven the car a lot more than 10 minutes, but the coolant doesn't seem to be leaking into the oil, and it isn't leaking all that fast. I think it's just burning off in the cylinders. The head gasket isn't blown, and I'm guessing that your old motor was leaking coolant like a sieve.

    I am a little concerned about the internals because I've seen metallic flakes every time I've drained the oil. I always cut open the filters. This last time the metallic flakes weren't too bad, but were still noticeable. I'm guessing/hoping that it's just typical engine break in. I've only driven the car a total of maybe 300 miles, but I've changed the oil 3 times just to keep a close eye on everything.

    Chris
  15. Mr. Rustypwnz

    Mr. Rustypwnz Advanced Member

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    my theory is that your heads arnt sealing well, because of the lean/high boost issue. that can kill some **** fast, id take the top end off and inspect everything.. especially the flatness of the heads..
  16. 89stang1

    89stang1 Stroked and Juiced

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    Chris did u have a HC test will tell u if hydrocarbon's are present in the coolant? Good luck man!
  17. 90lxcoupe

    90lxcoupe Mustang Master

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    I feel for you man, ive got more money than i'd like to count into my car, it will all work itself out enevtually, and yea my gaskets were blown bad, the first time it blew it put the biggest cloud of white smoke out on the dyno ive ever seen. Kinda wish i had it on video lol.

    I put my new motor on the engine dyno before it went in the car, and we took the filters apart and there were no shavings present, there was like little pieces of gasket but it was very minimal. My engine guy said you can expect to see some shavings in the first 20 minutes but he told me that my motor was exceptional and thats what he likes to see when the filter is apart on a Hydraulic cam. I'd watch those shavings if i were you, but it could just be the bearings taking thier seat
  18. S&B

    S&B I hate my CT. :(

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    Hang in there buddy, I know where your at and the worst part is the last thing you want to do is drop another 2k in the car at someone elses' shop, but if you are where I was at you just dont care you want to drive the f'ing car. I moved in the middle of my build and the guy who was doing most of the work didn't move with me. I went to a speed shop up here and they were pointing everything out that they would do differnt. You need to tell them , like i did that you understand that every hop up shop has its own way, and that from now on you will only take it there so do what they think will make it run right. I did that and now Im happy.

    My car runs so good I got pulled over in yesterday :banana: the cop was like WTF do you have under the hood, it sounds like a swarm of locusts flying down the street, he let me off with a warning I thanked him, then he started telling me how to merge with traffic, looked back at the car and said, "im sure you wont have any problems getting back up to hwy speed, john Force !!" I LOLed all the way back home
  19. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    That issue is resolved, now. And I only got on it the one time that I noticed it. It's certainly possible that I did some damage, but the car was using coolant the first night that I drove it before the issue you mention.

    Thanks

    Thanks for the tip. I've never done this test before. Do they sell this stuff at parts stores?

    You're right, everything will work out eventually. I'm really looking forward to that.

    That's exactly where I'm at right now... You hit the nail on the head.

    Awesome man! Would love to get my car to that point. One day...

    Chris
  20. Rick 91GT

    Rick 91GT SN Certified Technician Site Sponsor

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    John sent you a reply, sounds like the thermo is stuck shut....

    Chris, you can buy a kit at most parts stores to see if exhaust is getting in your coolant system, some kits have an additive that changes color, some stores rent the system as well, or test strips. A pressure test should also show if there is an issue... How much antifreeze are you runing in your system? If you don't have enough it could be boiling and running out

    Amazon.com: LISLE TOOLS 75500 COMB LEAK DETECTOR: Automotive

    NAPA has one as well PT# BK700-1006 Combustion Leak/Block Tester is what they list it as

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