351W Redline? And some more questions.

[Ares67Coupe]

As so not to hijack Mstng67289's thread. Here we go.

What is the redline of a 351W with the following modifications? Also does any of the below sound fishy or as if something is out of place? Thanks.

1967 Ford Mustang Coupe, 351W, Rebuilt Motor, Rebuilt Heads, Crane Cams Valvetrain, Ported and Polished, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Holley 4BBL Carb, Hedman Shorty Headers, Flowtech Warlock Exhaust, Dual Cutouts w/Custom Turndowns, Fresh Rebuilt T10 4-Speed, and Hurst Competition Shifter. EDIT: Also I am not sure of the CFMs of the Holley 4BBL, but the car did not stumble or miss and pulled extremely strong up to 4500RPMS.

The 351W is a rebuilt stock motor. The crane cam he has in there is the biggest he can fit without having to redo the bottom end. I do not have the cam card or cam specs, but will if I purchase the card when he gives me all of the paperwork for the car. The aforementioned engine was out of a 1979 Ford Van. This is all according to the current owner. He had the rebuild done on both the engine and the heads while the car has been in his possession, he also did the swap from a 302 which the previous owner had in it to the 351W which came out of a van that was at his father's shop waiting to be crushed.

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[D.Hearne]

6000 rpm's 6500 at the most.

 

[brianj5600]

It should have spot faces rod, which are generally considered a little tougher.

 

[Max Power]

Without cam specs, it's impossible to tell. If you still have press-in studs, I think 6500 is pushin it.

 

[mach1one]

best bet is to take it to a dyno and see where it quits making power. Anything much past that is running the engine out past where it wants to be.

 

[Ares67Coupe]

For now I'll work with 6,000, and when a dyno day arrives; I'll take it in and run her through 3 runs and see what comes up. Would it be safe to pull to 7,000 for those 3 runs, or should I stick with 6,500?

 

[mach1one]

no way I'd run it to 7k, good luck making power past 6k. If the cam is "the biggest he could put in w/o redoing the bottom end" then it's probably not very big. Unless we know the cam specs (or other specs, your description wasn't very, well descriptive )no one can really say an exact number, but I can't really see higher than 6k.

 

[Ares67Coupe]

Like I said, I won't know cam specs until I get the cam card. I'll see if I can get him to email them to me though. I know it'll help out a lot.

 

[Hack]

This may be obvious to everyone, including the original poster, but one thing bothers me. The question "what is the redline?" has some connotations to me. You could answer this in several ways.

1. What redline would Ford put on the motor in this configuration? Ford would want the thing to last 100k miles minimum. That redline will be conservative compared to the redline a drag racer would put on it, for instance. I don't know what this number is, but someone here should have it. To me this is the true meaning of redline.

2. What is the max rpm that the motor can hit briefly without immediate failure? Hehe, I don't know the answer to this either, but I think the replies have touched on this one.

3. What is the max rpm prior to highly accelerated wear on engine components? Do you want the motor to last 10k miles, 30k miles, or more? I think the answer changes based on this.

4. Where do you make power? Revving the motor over the power band is hard on it, and doesn't improve your e.t. So why do it?

It would be nice if 1 and 4 corresponded with each other. I personally would rather run a motor in the lower rpms that give a higher longevity. Something like 5000-5500 max for a Windsor with stock heads and bottom end (just guessing, the factory numbers may be lower). If you want to go beyond that, you aren't really talking redline, you're just using the motor however you want. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just a deliberate decision that the longevity of your motor is not as important to you as having fun with it.

Have fun.

 

[Ronstang]

We run a late model Ford assembled 351 shortbock in a 93 drag car. It is the sportsman block with truck internals and was assembled on the production line at Ford's engine facility. It has good Victor aluminum heads and a roller cam that is pretty close to .600 lift. We have been shifting this car at 7000-7500 for several years without any problems whatsoever....on a cast crank at that. I think in the current configuration we are shifting it at 7500 and the last time we had it at the track it was on the top end of the track on a 11.3 run when the Tremec splattered during the shift....not the engine.

 

[Ares67Coupe]

I would like to go to the point where the engine stops making power, ie the dropoff point, which should be fairly safe for longevity and of course maximum usage of the power band. There is no reason to go any farther than that if you do not see gains from it. Which is why I was asking. However when I pick up the car I'll just have to take it to a dyno and see what the dyno says. Thanks for the help.

 

[Max Power]

To me the redline is as far is it will rev. End of story. Too many variables the other way.

If you can get that puppy to 7 grand, I salute you. I ain't picking up what lands on the floor, though.....

 

[Hack]

We run a late model Ford assembled 351 shortbock in a 93 drag car. It is the sportsman block with truck internals and was assembled on the production line at Ford's engine facility. It has good Victor aluminum heads and a roller cam that is pretty close to .600 lift. We have been shifting this car at 7000-7500 for several years without any problems whatsoever....on a cast crank at that. I think in the current configuration we are shifting it at 7500 and the last time we had it at the track it was on the top end of the track on a 11.3 run when the Tremec splattered during the shift....not the engine.

That's cool, but I'm willing to bet you haven't done 400,000 quarter miles on the motor. How many miles will the motor last treated like that? Is the sportsman block the same as any other Windsor block, or is it specially designed by Ford to be stronger for racing applications? Your heads are not the same as the original posters.

You obviously know a lot more than me about what a motor can and can't do.
I wouldn't argue that it's possible to get a Windsor motor to perform, but I think the results would be a lot different with a 30 year old Windsor with stock heads and bottom end, recent rebuild or not.

So I don't think that information has much bearing on the question at hand.

 

[mach1one]

redline (from what I always understood) is way past the point of making power and you're now exceeding the safety margins set by the factory (ie, valvetrain starts floating, run the risk of messing bearings, smacking valves, or messing up other important internal engine parts). you should only be worried about the point your car quits making power, bc you will be shifting just a couple hundred rpm past that or right at that point.

Ronstang sounds like he has a nice setup, but w/ a roller cam and alot nicer heads, you can't in anyway compare his engine to yours. Don't expect to see over 6k, I'd be willing to bet it starts going flat closer to 5k.