3V Mod swap Fox

Discussion in 'Fox Engine Swaparoo' started by S&B, Jan 4, 2012.


  1. S&B

    S&B I hate my CT. :(

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    So I sold off my Dart setup and now im 99% sure im going to go with a 3V swap.
    Im not going to do anything crazy just a plain old 3v mustang motor with working A/C and power steering. I will also be doing 5 lug swap, I would like to get all the parts in advance so Im going to make a list and If people see things Im missing or want to put input in let me know. I have read some of the 3v swap write ups but everyone is a bit different. Im still a bit confused on how im going to make the A/C work.

    Motor - 3V motor (not sure what year i know the later ones
    Exhaust- ? probably make the factory headers work with my x pipe
    cooling- alum radiator with dual fan setup (controlled with a spal controller or the FMS kit)
    Trans/clutch- my TKO600 and Mcleod dual disc setup with new bell housing and flywheel for the 4.6
    ECU - Ford Motorsport plug and play kit
    Suspension- AJE k member with a arms and Coil overs
    Steering- ? help keeping stock interior looks like I need a 4.6 rack
    brakes - 94/95 spindles with hydroboost setup convert rear to 5 lug

    Unknowns.
    Drive shaft - What will work ? maybe custom?
    A/C= What compressor should I run and what condenser ??
    Want it to fit under a stock hood so Im going to use the MM K memeber spacers, looks like it should fit then.
    Power steering pump - Will the s197 pump work or should I run a sn95 ?


    Hopefully someone has some Ideas I would like to have everything before I start tearing in.
     
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  2. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    --I believe the driveshaft needs to be like 1.5" shorter than std Fox d/s...can't recall where I saw the length quote though. I think D&D had specs for them though.
    --You should be able to use the donor year compressor since it bolts up directly to the block; the other parts can be sourced from an SN95 without much issue-I believe they'll mount into your Fox with only minor fabrication. Lines might be the only problematic part, but if you have a good a/c shop in your town, they can make lines custom to your needs.
    --I wish I could tell you whether or not a 3v would fit under a stock hood line, but I almost hazard a guess it won't.
    --With the p/s pump, again-use the donor year. If you source the engine from a wrecked Mustang, wherever you buy it from shouldn't have any issue with purchasing it with all the front dress. When it comes to the lines though, that may be another story. I just bought a hydroboost setup with all the lines intact...just hope I can find a pump for my 4v since I'm having to piece it all together from scratch. :confused:

    --The brake swap you propose is a good start-I went with the 94/95 spindles as well, and would recommend the MM s/s braided lines...regardless of whether you use V6/GT or Cobra calipers. The GT stuff is way better than factory Fox brakes, and Cobra better still, but much pricier these days. Unless you're doing autocross or road racing, the GT brakes work very well for everyday driving; I can't speak to their utility going down the 1320, but I'm sure they work quite well based on some "emergency stop testing" I've done. I also converted the rear to disc with a salvaged MKVII/SVO setup...again, works well, does require some grinding to setup-but a better idea would be to pirate the hardware from a 94-98 GT since all the stuff is already there and regularity of parts availability is better than with the SVO stuff.
    --I'd imagine the steering rack wouldn't be an issue unless the fittings for the lines are different (?)...I have yet to find that out. But, as with any lines they can be fabbed as needed...if I get around to it before you though, I'll post it up.
    --Good call on the coil overs and tubular parts-makes working underneath so much easier.
    --The radiator and fans can also be pirated from an SN95-again, as with the condenser, there will be some mild fab required...but nothing you can't handle I'm sure.
    --BBK makes 4.6 swap into fox headers-or at least, I'm pretty sure they do. I know for a fact they make Coyote into Fox headers, and Kooks makes whatever you want, but they ain't cheap. I'd look up BBK first though...
    --Whatever year from 05-10 is what you're looking for...get everything you possibly can from the donor car that you think-even for a moment-you might need. If it's tethered to the engine, you're probably gonna need it. Don't forget mounts-the ones for an SN95 will work to the best of my knowledge, but the '05-up ones are different. Depending on how much you want to modify your Fox, you may want to find a way to integrate the wiring into your existing harness...retrofitting S197 into Fox sounds like a rather daunting task to me...
    --Don't forget about the fuel system. I don't know what you're running, but 3v engines use the returnless setup, and the electronics are programmed for it...might need to upgrade or adapt a few parts. I'm going with a return style multi-pump hat from either Kurgan or On3Performance.

    I initially wanted to do this swap (3v) back around '07 and had an email question published in 5.0 and Super Fords about the exact same thing. As time went by I ran into a guy who wound up talking me into going 4v. He initially tried to get me into a twin turbo setup and I was about it until I found a good deal on some single turbo piping. I wish you the best luck on this swap-I'm gonna try to post up pictures as my project gets underway. As of right now, the old Vortech fed 5.0/T5 combo is coming out and headed to a friend with a '65 notchback. His will probably be running before mine!
     
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  3. S&B

    S&B I hate my CT. :(

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    thanks for the help, the more i read into it the more im going 4v
     
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  4. BlownFiveLiter

    BlownFiveLiter have car, will race....wait, it doesn't run

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    If you're considering a 3v swap, check out LRS's blog where they did one in a Fairmont. link
     
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  5. BlownFiveLiter

    BlownFiveLiter have car, will race....wait, it doesn't run

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    Edit: double post
     
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  6. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Gotta admit-that 3v Fairmont was pretty BA-sounded nice, and they built it using FRPP goodies...my pockets just ain't that deep.
     
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  7. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    I guess it depends on your end goal. A 3v won't look *quite* as cramped under the hood of a Foxbody, you just gotta find a source for all your parts. But, that goes with any swap where you're putting an engine which didn't go there in the first place. The good part is the 3V stuff is literally everywhere. 4V stuff can still be found, but there are a couple premiums unless you know people or know people who know people...or you're just the type of person that falls into puddles of poo and comes out smelling like a rose. Your options are still pretty varied, since the 3V came in F150s and Explorers as well as Mustangs. The 4Vs also came in the Aviators (popular swap if you can find one), and if you don't mind a B head engine, a MKVIII powerplant is usually available somewhere and for some reason, they're not terribly expensive ;) edit: obviously Cobra and Mach engines are still available, but they usually command a bit of a premium, and unless you feel like making big power, the 3V will probably suit you just fine...

    There's nothing wrong with one or the other...just depends on your ultimate goal, and how much you feel like liberating from your pocketbook...
     
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  8. S&B

    S&B I hate my CT. :(

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    i was looking at buying a used up cobra or wrecked so I get the whole car. going for 3,500-4,500 so thats much easier then buying everything piece by piece then I will use everything from the donar, new K member with my 95 spindles,...etc... and have someone weld on the a/c stuff to my fittings
     
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  9. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Is that all people are asking where you're at for a wrecked Cobra?? I think I need to be where you're at! I'm pretty sure I've already spent that much just getting together some engine parts and a transmission w/torque converter.

    ...granted it was a 3500 stall and aftermarket rods and pistons, but still...
     
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  10. sdsteve619

    sdsteve619 Member

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    I have another question for you about my 93 fox conv. and your 84? Why take out the 302 turbo and put in a 4.6? When I get around to it I would like upgrade my 93 w/ 306 turbo..or should I go with something like you are doing?
     
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  11. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Well, my 302 had a vortech S trim blower. And it made good power, but I wanted to make more than what I felt the block would reliably handle. That is a greatly debated subject on here and there are some extremely opinionated folks as to whether or not a stock roller 302 will take it; there are also plenty of folks who have cars making that level of power and race regularly. But, there are also plenty of unfortunate souls who sunk a couple thousand into a reciprocating ass'y only to ruin many of the parts when the block split into two four cylinders. What it boils down to for me is that I wanted about 500 rwhp with room to expand, and with a stock roller blocked 302, that's pushing the reliable limits of the block. Furthermore, the aftermarket choices for a better 302 aren't what most folks would refer to a bargain. Cheapest deal is a FRPP Boss block at $1659, and then you have to machine it and use special cam bearings only available from Ford...at least at the time.

    And before someone gets on here to chastise me about making power on the cheap, I'm fully and abundantly aware of the fact that speed costs money. So-I'll drag that horse off before trolls and e-thugs start beating its helpless carcass.

    Moving on...for me to build up the engine I wanted in a 306-331 platform I was easily in for $4500 just for the shortblock, toss in another $1500 for an appropriate set of heads, $400+ for an intake since the Cobra one I currently had was a huge bottleneck for what I wanted, plus valvetrain, bigger pumps, bigger injectors, and all the supporting hardware and equipment I'd need. Ballpark, I was looking at nearly $8k for a setup I knew would make the power and I wouldn't have to worry about it just crapping the bed on me one day when I decided to let the horses run. Enter a guy I recently met who had a 600rwhp twin turbo'd 4.6 4V-and did it [relatively speaking] on the cheap. He found a used turbo kit for a good deal, bolted it onto a 4V mod motor, tuned it, and made 600 daily driven reliable rear wheel hp out of it...gave me ideas.

    There are people making 1000 hp on stock modular blocks with good internals...stock blocked 03-04 Terminators making 1000hp...kinda speaks to the reliability level there. So, I started adding up the numbers and figured out that I could make better power, for the same or less money, have a reliable daily driven car, AND something pretty unique around here. Mod foxes aren't anything really spectacular anymore since they're ever-gaining in popularity, but I can only think of one in my area and his isn't exactly a street car...same guy mentioned above-pulled the mod motor from his SN95 and dropped it into an '89 coupe, and carbed it. His big bore N/A modular is a 10 sec car...and he beats the daylights out of it. There's also a bottle in the back...

    Ok, there's my story...

    Now, if you want to turbo your '93 'vert with a 306, please don't let me stand in your way-it would be a BA ride-not a doubt in my mind. And as long as you keep the power level reasonable, you'd have absolutely no problems. Thing is, you have to define your goal and expecations with the car-if you want a firebreathing 306 turbo car-definitely can be done...just be ready to plunk down some serious cheddar. If you're looking for a respectable street mannered car that's deceptively fast but not so ridiculous that it's a chore to drive, then you can probably get by with a well built shortblock, good set of heads and supporting mods.

    Define your expectations of the car, and go from there...I can't tell you what you "should" or "shouldn't" do based on your question...
     
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  12. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Oh, a little about limitations...where 302/5.0s limiting factor is the block, the rods are junk in a mod motor...they start to tear in half about the same level as 5.0s blocks start to crack or give way...again-very debatable subject with contradicting opinions on one side and incontrevertable evidence of catastrophic failure on the other. But, rods with good ARP 2000 bolts are cheap compared to 4 bolt 302 blocks...
     
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  13. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    You find a donor yet? Anything new or change in plans?
     
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  14. S&B

    S&B I hate my CT. :(

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    nothing new waiting for the right donor, almost bought a 93 cobra kind of all over the place.
     
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  15. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Tough to pass that up...
     
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  16. S&B

    S&B I hate my CT. :(

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    did buy the 93 cobra supposed to go get it next week teal/black im pumped but I spent all my motor money so the notch will just sit for a while
     
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  17. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Should've known that was gonna happen lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Rick 91GT

    Rick 91GT SN Certified Technician Site Sponsor

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    So whats done to the Cobra?
     
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  19. Rick 91GT

    Rick 91GT SN Certified Technician Site Sponsor

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    Finally got a Coyote build to do in a 90GT...Cant wait!
     
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  20. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Sweet!! Can't wait to see pictures


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