99 Cobra VS 2001 Cobra

Discussion in 'SVT Tech Forum' started by Kane, Dec 1, 2003.


  1. 103

    103
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    Only two big differences, really. The 01 has 31 spline axles (as opposed to 28) and the TR3650 tranny (versus the T-45). The 31 splines are better, obviously, but the T-45 will last longer than a 3650 racing. And, for the record, there are obvious differences in the feel of a shift between the two trannies.
     
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  2. lafear01

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    Naz is correct.
    OT: Naz, but your snake is a bit of a factory freak IMHO... :flag:
     
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  3. wbpo

    wbpo New Member

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    TECHNICAL
    Shifting Evolution
    TTC-Tremec’s new TR3650 5-speed combines the shift-ability of the production T45 with the durability of the legendary TR3550
    By Donald Farr

    When the Bullitt Mustang hit the streets in 2001, there's no arguing that the car had all the right elements for a specialty Mustang – more horsepower, muscular looks, and a lot of neat trim to differentiate it from the regular Mustang GTs. Less obvious, and just barely mentioned in Ford press release literature, is the fact that the Bullitt models were the first Mustangs equipped with TTC-Tremec’s new TR3650 5-speed transmission.

    Designed to replace the T45, the TR3650 was the first production-based 5-speed to come out of the merger between Borg-Warner, manufacturer of the T45, and Tremec, a company best known in the Mustang world for its aftermarket Tremec 3350 (including the legendary TKO version) 5-speeds. "In general, the TR3650 represents an evolution of design from several sources," explained TTC’s Kevin Ryan. "With the T45’s T5-similar heritage from Borg-Warner and the Tremec TR3550’s track-proven durability, the design philosophies were combined in the TR3650 to provide extended durability with refined shift-ability and quiet operation." After the TR3650 5-speed’s production debut in the Bullitt Mustang at mid-year 2001, the new transmission also became the standard gearbox in all Mustang GTs and Cobras. It’s also a tremendous upgrade for owners of 1996 to early 2001 Mustangs, especially for the older cars that may be in need of a new transmission and, of course, for performance enthusiasts who require a stouter 5-speed for drag racing or spirited driving.

    The TR3650 was designed as a drop-in replacement for the T45, requiring only minor modification to the back-up lamp switch pigtail in electronic speedometer 1999-to-present models because there is no gear-drive speedo in the TR3650.

    The new TR3650 incorporates a number of design improvements, including its 360 lb/ft. torque capacity compared to the T45’s 325 lb./ft. This was accomplished primarily by the increase in the center distance from 81mm to 85mm. The TR3650 also provides an increase in synchronizer capacity, with a fully synchronized, constant-mesh , reverse gear train that produces a much more durable and smoother shifting operation over the double-disconnect T45 design, which produced in-consistent shift loads and block-outs. The TR3650s new multi-rail shift linkage, while retaining the track durability of the TR3550, has been refined to provide the enhanced shiftability delivered in the T45. Utilizing state-of-the-art materials, the overall TR3650 package provides increased durability and smoother shifting with lower effort operation.




    Adopting TTC’s "Fill for Life" philosophy, the TR3650 uses premium synthetic ATF ( Mobil1 ) as the factory oil fill, as opposed to the Dexron III used in the T45. This change is an improvement that demonstrates TTC’s long-term durability focus for its products.

    By taking the best of Borg-Warner’s T45 and the strength of the TR3550, TTC-Tremec has created a production 5-speed that offers both smooth shifting on the street and speed-shifting durability for the track. It’s a great upgrade, not only for 2002 4.6 Mustangs but also as a T45 replacement in earlier models. –MP


    Not all '01 Mustangs got the new TR3650 tranny. The easy way to find out if a Mustang is fortified with 3650 goodness is to kneel down and look for the drain plug on the bottom of the tranny. The plug on a T45 is located on the side.



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    #23
  4. wbpo

    wbpo New Member

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    Please, if you don't know what your talking about with regard to the difference between the T45 and the 3650 don't confuse the issue. No way the T45 was/is more durable. It is clearly inferior to the 3560 and the 31 spline setup.

    Get the '01.
     
    #24
  5. Nazman

    Nazman New Member

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    Lafear,

    You may be right. I just hate to see these 99 vs. 01 deals. Yes, is true they have a few diferences here and there, the intake may be a tad better, the splines count, the seats, the CD player and the bumper....dont let me forget the polished rims option but they are the same. Then it came the coment about "power" and is not completly correct. Yes, we have some weak 99s but I have seen a bunch of "weak" 01s as well.

    They are great cars, if the 01 still has some warranty and less milleage, if the $$ vs. $$ makes sense then the 01 is the better purchase.

    and by the way......I dont think mine is a freak :D Just abnormal! :nice:

    Naz
     
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  6. lafear01

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    Agreed; from the power perspective, its a toss up. from the amenities/extras standpoint, i'd have to say go with the 01. The only thing that really bugs me about the 99's are the seats. I used to have a 99gt (same seats). there is no lateral support in those things. I ended up swaping in some 89' conquest tsi seats. I had to make them work and re-appolster them as well. More time & money... As for the rest of the differences, I can take them or leave them...

    OT: Naz, I get my snake back from the engine builder next sunday. I had the following added:

    big bore 305ci
    FR500 cams .472 lift @.050 (many people are seeing the light with these cams. they are a very good improvement with OEM drivability)
    Fox Lake Ported stock heads (valve job & bowl work as well)
    billet oil pump gears.

    PS: I am an FRPP dealer now (just on the side & for a little extra mod money). I have an inside source on everything in the FRPP catalog. I can get you 5% to 20% off of anything. I really dont think anyone can beat what i can get FRPP parts for...

    Take care over there NAZ. I assume your still in Germany!?!?

    Chris
     
    #26
  7. Nazman

    Nazman New Member

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    Sound real good! Who is doing your install? Who's big bore kit did you get? Forged internals I assume? How about your tunning afterwards? It should be a little beast after the fact!

    Now Check your PMs......

    Naz
     
    #27
  8. 99SVTAddict

    99SVTAddict New Member

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    Lafear, did you go with a new bottom end, or modify your existing block to a big bore :shrug:

    Damn, I need to give you a call to see what you got going on. :nice:
    I HOPE you put in forged internals while you had the motor apart in case you step up to a blower or Nitrous down the road.

    And who is doing the tuning on this thing?
     
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  9. lafear01

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    give me a call addict (after 6pm tonight). I'll fill you in on everything then... :nice:
     
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  10. lafear01

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    Naz/Addict,

    This is the Build Fact Sheet:

    Builder: Hensler Racing (columbus Ohio)
    Big Bore 305ci: diamond forged aluminum pistons; 10.5.1 compression. eagle forged rods;

    30lb injectors

    The block is a 01 block (not my original), that was prepared by ModularFords (in Michigan). I had the opportunity to examine the motor when i dropped the car off. It looked very clean. It was already a big bore. Hensler Pre-preps blocks he gets to shave time off of jobs. Hensler is doing a 5.3L build up for another guy i know that cruises on the corral. N/A the guy is hoping for 475rwhp.

    I shipped my FR500 valvetrain kit down to the shop myself.

    Fox Lake ported my stock heads. I was told from more than 1 source that Fox Lake does great 4V head work.

    FR500 CAMs are sweet. Hensler put a kit on a near-stock (the car had an O/R h-pipe only) 4.6L cobra and picked up 28rwhp!!! There is a little more valvetrain noise, but that's to be expected from a high-lift camshaft. PS: that 28rwhp was without a tune (hensler is an engine builder but does not tune the rides)!!! just an dyno-install-dyno! Since the install, Hensler ordered two more FR500 valvetrain kits.

    I was told that 400rwhp is very possible with this combo, but I've also been told that my stock intake will prolly keep me away from that number. I'm thinking that myself. Hensler gave me a good price. It was very comperable to bolting on a centri blower...

    Chris
     
    #30
  11. 99SVTAddict

    99SVTAddict New Member

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    Interesting. Good for you Lafear. It should be a blast.
    I'll be looking forward to a drive in the new ride.

    Still curious as to who you will entrust with the tuning.

    All this talk just proves the point...the 99 and 01's are the same car!!!! Except for some small upgraded things anyway...but performance wise they are the same. And besides, who cares????? You will start to mod the car as soon as you start getting use to the power.

    I have 500RWHP...car was so scary at first my legs would shake...now I keep asking my wife, "Does the car feel slower to you or is it just me?"
     
    #31
  12. lafear01

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    yep. 99 & 01 are even from the performance standpoint, but who leaves it stock anyhow. LOL.

    Addict: tuning? I would have 'my regular tuner do it', but i'm concerned of his reaction to what I did. But hey, i actually offered him the job. He told me most of his costs were fixed. I understand that. But I have other jobs he can do as well...

    PS: Speedworks closed. can you believe it???!!! that's a shame.
     
    #32
  13. 103

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    Sorry, but the T45 is better than the 3650. A lot of 01 Cobra guys have been getting rid of their 3650s and getting T45s from D&D. I went through 3 3650s before my warranty was finally up, then I got a TKO. The 3650 is garbage and you can't even rebuild the pieces of crap unless you want to pay Ford far too much money for the parts. Tremec doesn't even sell them! And the difference between the 31 spline setup and the 28 spline setup is negligible since similar setups result in broken half-shafts.

    I would still get an 01 since they are newer and, only IMO, look better and have better seats.

    Just to remind everyone, the 3650 is garbage. Garbage garbage garbage. :-D
     
    #33
  14. Traveler

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    My tranny is still doing fine after 2 years of driving, but there certainly seem to be quite a few complaints about the 3650.
     
    #34
  15. Matts01cobra

    Matts01cobra New Member

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    This is my first post here so let me start this with an introduction. My name is Matt Im from cinci ohio area and have an 01 cobra (and a 02 vert six shooter for the wife). You guys had me in a panic. I was always under the impression all 01 cobras came with the tremec. So your post got me thinking I might not. Thankfully I do (just ran out to the stall to check) Its got the drain plug on the bottom. I was posting this FYI. I have an early model as I ordered it before production began in 01. Its like number 384 I think (would have to go get paperwork to know for sure) built in the first week of March when production on the car began. Now I dont want to stir up no **** cause I been reading a few threads on here and youall are brutal at times. But I thought the 01 cobra came before the Mach 1 and was the first mustang to get it. And I believe all cobras 01 and up have it as well. Now I dont really give a rats ass if Im right or wrong just as long as I had it :nice:
     
    #35
  16. wbpo

    wbpo New Member

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    I have not heard of a broken 3650 in my area. Only half shafts which have nothing to do with the tranny and everything to do with poor half shafts. The only issue I have heard is a hard shift issue which I don't have. Nor does anyone else I know. Those who did have the 2-3 hard to shift issue can have a "fix" done by Ford with new parts from Tremec.
     
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  17. 103

    103
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    ok, well, let me repeat, the 3650 sucks. I had three. One just randomly died in traffic... After being in my for less than a month in late December. I never got to race with that one since it was off season. It's a poorly designed transmission. Go to the 4.6 Tech forum and look at their 3650 thread. These transmissions are heavy, inefficient, and break easily. It can barely take stock torque (TORQUE! something we barely have in the first place!) from our cars. Add an X-pipe and race on a cold day and BOOM, there goes second... Plus, the input shaft is the same garbage that came with the T-45. It wouldn't cost much for Ford to put strong trannies on our cars. Oh wait, they did. 2003 got a T-56 that can barely handle the power they put out...

    Also, the 3650 came out in mid 2001MY. So, the early GTs (made in 2000 but part of the early 2001MY) got T-45s. Starting in mid-2001MY production run (beginning of 2001) the 3650s were put into the Cobra and the GT. I have heard there are different versions, but they all seem to break in the same places on closely powered cars (modded GT, Bullitt and Cobra).
     
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  18. 99SVTAddict

    99SVTAddict New Member

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    I agree with this:

    T45....bad gears.
    3650...bad synchros

    T56 barely handling the power the 03 Cobra's make :shrug: I haven't heard of any breaking. They are handling some serious power as far as I know. I decided to go with the Viper spec T56 though...handles more power, and only a couple hundred more than the other T56's on the market.

    My 2 cents.
     
    #38
  19. 103

    103
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    Perhaps I missunderstood what I read in some post, but I got the impression some of the 03 guys were replacing some part inside the tranny with a Viper spec part because some were having issues with said part. I just don't remember what part it was. Heh, didn't pay too close attention, I have a TKO.
     
    #39
  20. sleeper89

    sleeper89 New Member

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    i have also heard of the '03 cobras breaking t-56's. however it is not with the stock power. if i remember correctly the input shaft isn't quite as beefy as other t56's (ie viper) and breaks around 550hp.

    as for the 3650 vs. t45 debate, there is NO way the t45 is stronger. it just doesn't make economic sense for Ford to swap to a heavier, more expensive, tranny that is weaker, or for tremec to redesign the 3550 (to make the 3650) to be weaker than the cheaper t45.

    -steve
     
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