A little info will go a long way...

[Killian Korth]

howdy everyone, I'm back again and have a few questions.


as you may know or observe from my sig, I plan on doing a V8 swap for my V6 someday. Currently I'm just trying to decide on what motor I want to put in it, and when it boils down to it that's going to be decided by what I can find for the right price and at what time.

So having said that, I've found a '76 351 windsor V8 and tranny for $350 and I'm just wondering what sort of changes I'll have to make to the engine and my car to make it all work. I'm planning on maybe rebuilding it before I swap it in, that really depends on my funds when my V6 blows and I desperately need the swap. If I can afford to rebuild it before then though I sure will so I'm not worried about the power of this motor VS. many other I could use because many times when I've asked about a motor most people will give me their idea of what I should do instead.

but frankly put I would just like to know what I would need to do to my car and the engine to make it fit and run decently. I realize I may seem like an asshat for that last bit but believe me, the majority of mustang forums I've been to are all about telling people what they should do and not what they want to know for some reason.

I'm not sure what tranny it is, but the engine/tranny setup came out of a 76 Ford Van so I'm guessing it's an automatic which I might swap for a manual.

anywho, sorry for the long post, just wanted to be clear and I hope nobody takes that badly.

thanks!

 

[AZmustang98]

You will need a K-member out of a 95-95 car because it was made for the Pushrod 5.0 and it will allow the use of the 351. Im guessing the transmission is the C6, dont bother putting it in your car. Now for the "what you should do is..." statements.

If you want a 351, find a later roller 351 . So a 351 out of a late 80's or early 90's Bronco or F-150. Sorry

PS: I think it would be a cool swap.

 

[Killian Korth]

lulz well no need to be sorry for that sort of response. The other places I've been to basically opened up their post by calling me an idiot for wanting anything other than what they thought was the best. And even then they didn't say what I might need to do as far as the K-member and such till a few pages into it.

I'm not sure if the guy is going to get back to me or not, hopefully he does. I've asked him what tranny it is and I might be able to get him down to 300 bucks on the engine and tranny, and I figure I can sell the tranny if I don't want it or at least scrap it out. He did mention in the ad that he was going to put it in his mustang too but I think he sold it or something, I'm not sure.

but yeah like I said I'm not dead set on a 351, I'm just playing with what I find and seeing if it'd work and be pretty cool, I won't have much success looking for a 80-90 motor around here since almost everyone wants too damn much for anything they're selling anymore.

How much power difference do you think there would be between a 90's 351 and this 76 if I put new heads and cams in it? Just spitballing really, if it's not a giant difference then I might try this one and see what happens.

 

[AZmustang98]

Well a roller 351 will allow for more aggressive cam profiles which obviously make more power...

The problem with the 351 being a 76 is it has chit for heads, large chambers, small valves, dished pistons. Ghey performance... The only way I was able to sell the 76 351 heads that I had was because some hippy wanted them for his Econoline he was restoring. Now im not saying that you cant make a 351 a beast, but your going to be shelling out some cash for heads and a cam set up.

 

[Killian Korth]

oh don't get me wrong I know I'll be shelling out quite a bit of cash. I love my car so much that I don't care though, haha. I'll get over the money part no problem because it'll be way worth it I think.

I'm not really looking for over the top extreme power and performance really, I mostly just want to be able to shut up the GM/Pontiac fanboys around here and I think with this (and the right heads/cam) I might be able to do it. Thanks for the help.

My brother is going to be helping me with all of this and I asked him if he thought I should buy this motor the other day and he said it wouldn't fit, but I found several hundred Youtube videos of 90's-2000 stangs with 351w in 'em so that works. And plus we can make it fit if it doesn't >

 

[AZmustang98]

If they can fit 460s in Foxbodys, then you can fit a 351 in a New Edge. Duh...

 

[Killian Korth]

lulz yeah, I found some youtube videos of 351's in 90 era stangs so I'm not worried about it. he'll help me if he wants to or not

 

[wmburns]

IMO, the problem with this thread (and others like it) is the OP hasn't answered questions like:

• Carb or fuel injection?
• Plans for engine management?
• Does the car have to pass inspection?
• What are the HP goals?
• How do you expect the car to drive after the swap is done? IE, like a race car or a "stock" car that your Wife/GF can drive?
• The $$ budget
• Your experience and how much work you are planning to do yourself. Especially how good is your electrical?
• How much time has been allocated to do the work? It makes a difference if the car can be down for a week, month or a year(s).

Not wanting to "hate" on your project, but your goals and expectations greatly affect the "difficulity" level of a project such as this. These choices also affect what is needed to make the swap happen.

OBTW, if unable to find a suitable Stock K-member, there are after market units that might actually make the job easier. IE, tubular K-members allow more room to work and are header friendly.

Some examples:

http://www.americanmuscle.com/qa1-tubular-kmember-7995.html

Mix and match:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Anthony-Jones/040/MU-40UM/10002/-1?parentProductId=752065
http://www.jegs.com/i/Anthony-Jones/040/MU-10/10002/-1?parentProductId=752065

THIS product has specific notes about the 351W swap:
Will also bolt into a 96-04 Ford Mustang for use with a Windsor based engine
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-k-member-tow-hook-79.html

 

[Killian Korth]

IMO, the problem with this thread (and others like it) is the OP hasn't answered questions like:

• Carb or fuel injection?
• Plans for engine management?
• Does the car have to pass inspection?
• What are the HP goals?
• How do you expect the car to drive after the swap is done? IE, like a race car or a "stock" car that your Wife/GF can drive?
• The $$ budget
• Your experience and how much work you are planning to do yourself. Especially how good is your electrical?
• How much time has been allocated to do the work? It makes a difference if the car can be down for a week, month or a year(s).

Not wanting to "hate" on your project, but your goals and expectations greatly affect the "difficulity" level of a project such as this. These choices also affect what is needed to make the swap happen.


OBTW, if unable to find a suitable Stock K-member, there are after market units that might actually make the job easier. IE, tubular K-members allow more room to work and are header friendly.

Some examples:

http://www.americanmuscle.com/qa1-tubular-kmember-7995.html

Mix and match:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Anthony-Jones/040/MU-40UM/10002/-1?parentProductId=752065
http://www.jegs.com/i/Anthony-Jones/040/MU-10/10002/-1?parentProductId=752065

THIS product has specific notes about the 351W swap:
Will also bolt into a 96-04 Ford Mustang for use with a Windsor based engine
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-k-member-tow-hook-79.html

well it's a '76 so I'd assume carbed. The guy still hasn't gotten back to me on the motor so I don't know much about it. Like I said I'm just asking because I have the opportunity to buy this motor and am just throwing the idea around for now.

I'm not sure what you mean by engine management

no there's no inspection I'll have to go through

no real high HP goals as of now, like I said before I just want enough to maybe shut some of the GM fanboys up around here. Which really all I'd have to beat is a newer GTO and some camaros

I don't mind how it would drive, it's for me and me alone and I'm not nor am I ever out to impress anyone so it could ride like absolute for all I care, I'd love her anyway.

the budget is something I'm always asked, and I've answered it the same way every time. I don't care how much I spend, I may not have it at the moment but this is going to be a work in progress deal. I'll get the motor first and save up the money to rebuild it however I'd like. It may be a difficult way to do it but it's probably my best bet instead of taking out a loan or something of that nature.

Personally I'm not THAT experienced, but my dad has had a shop my whole life and I've always helped out down there and on different projects we've done, I may not be the best but I can wrench and can fabricate to a certain extent. My dad has been a mechanic for pretty much his whole life. And my brother is a diesel tech but does a lot of work on gas engines too and he'll be helping me more than dad.

the time I give to the swap really depends on the situation. If I can get this motor, and get it rebuilt soon, I would have transportation for a short while but I still wouldn't want to take that much time on it. I would hope to get the motor built and then have it there whenever I may need or want it. I'm probably going to drive the sixxer till she blows for now, and then when that happens use whatever motor I have if I have got one. If I have some time where I don't have to be many places and my brother and dad have the time as well and I have the motor and all the parts ready to go then I may choose to axe the V6 a little early and throw it in there.

it really all depends on what I've mentioned, but for the most part that's the aim I'm looking for, hope that answers your questions, and thanks for the reply. That isn't what I would call hating on my project, you asked questions that would help and didn't do it in an idiotic manner.

thanks :thumbsup:

 

[wmburns]

Check out the follow about the 351W from the 1970's.
>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Windsor_engine
Introduced in 1969, it was initially rated (SAE gross) at 250 hp (186 kW) with a two-barrel carburetor or 290 hp (216 kW) with a four-barrel. When Ford switched to net power ratings in 1972 it was rated at 153 to 161 hp (114 to 120 kW), although actual, installed horsepower was only fractionally lower than in 1971.
<<

So if you rebuild a stock 351W from the 1970's this gives you an iron head motor with about 160 HP. Compare that to the 190 HP that a 2000 V6 is rated.

IMO, if one of your goals is to "shut up" GM fan boys, THIS motor isn't going to do it.

IMO, do you think that a 40 year old motor is actually going to run without a rebuild? I would love to hear from a local machine shop how much the rebuilding is going to run.

And then, what are you going to do about the heads? Are you going to spend good $$ rebuilding iron heads?

I think you are focusing on the low initial cost of the motor instead of focusing on the total "project". By the time everything is taken into accout, that ready to install 351W crate motor may not be so expensive.

Engine management is what makes the motor run. Be that a PCM set up like a modern car or a distributer with some sort of MSD ignition controller.

If going Carb, some re-work of the fuel system is needed as a fuel injected fuel pump has way too much pressure for a carb set-up.

 

[Killian Korth]

Well for starers, my car is not new. It is in fact a 12 year old V6 that doesn't make near the amount of power that it did when it first rolled out of the factory, and assuming so isn't right. Second, I never said I would throw the engine in there without building it, and I never said anything about rebuilding the heads, even though I didn't say anything about keeping the stock heads. I did say that I was planning on buying new heads for it. I'm looking at older motors that need rebuilding because I want to rebuild a motor with my brother and dad. We always wanted to have a project like this, and ever since we rebuilt his 81 straight six (my avatar actually) we've been looking for something for my car now. I don't want something already done and ready to be thrown in there because if we actually do the work on it, we'll know exactly what was put into it. You can have your opinion on whether or not this is going to be a good option to make my car faster, but I don't think you understand that my V6 isn't a spring chicken with 180,000 miles on it and counting.

like I said, I'm just tossing around the idea of buying this motor because it's cheap now, and I don't even care about the long-run cost either because in the end I'll have something I built and can be proud of, even if it doesn't do much speed-wise.

and since it's a 76 engine I'm assuming it's carbed, I really don't know much about it (like I already said) because the guy hasn't gotten back to me yet. If it's PCM then that's the way I'll go, but if it's a distributer I'll go with that, it really depends on the motor. I know there'll be a lot of re-making the system but we can do it.

 

[wmburns]

Your opening post stated, "I'm planning on maybe rebuilding it before I swap it in". This gave the impression that the rebuild was optional.

A 1976 Ford will have a distributer and carb. A 1995 Mustang OHV 5.0 had a distributer and fuel injection. This was the last year of a distributer in a Mustang.

Recommend doing your homework regarding some of the "small parts" a 351W swap will take. I'm speaking of front drive belt acc brackets and such. Often these small parts can be hard to find. This one reason why most Mustang forums will recommed staying with a 302 based motor and getting a 1995 as a "donor". This gives you a leg up on the K-memeber and the engine management PCM.

Good luck to you. Hope you have some of the information you were looking for.

 

[Killian Korth]

eh, oops didn't mean to put it like that. That was more of a "if my V6 blows before I've rebuilt the motor" sort of last resort kind of deal. Not the route I want to go but if I need a motor really badly that'll be what I may have to do unless I find a better project car and just throw another 3.8 in it.

thanks for the advice though, I haven't seen anything around here for a donor car, that's my big problem with using that as a plan because I cam't find anything local and it'd be too expensive if I found one somewhere a ways away.

and I didn't really get the information I was looking for quite yet, I already had an inkling about the K-member, but what would some of those "small parts" be?

 

[Killian Korth]

well, just a little update here for who might be interested.


My little sixxer was due for an oil change for a few weeks, so last week I went and got oil and a filter and a new coilpack because that seemed to be the cause of the horrible engine shake. I've also had an exhaust leak since I bought her (3 years ago) and figured I would see if a new set of header gaskets would fix it.

Anywho, I was taking off the driver side headers to swap out gaskets and I noticed a crack about the width of the earth on the seam of the tube leading to the sixth cylinder.

long story short, Valves are burnt to and warped, compression is shot and that is why my engine vibrates uncontrollably at low rpm.

and the guy hadn't responded to my e-mail about the 351 and I don't know of anyone with a V8 readily available so I've decided to stick with the 3.8 and rebuild her.

thanks for all the help, input, and advice. I'm sure I'll be around and post pictures of the build for funzies.