I have that stupid clunk/pop sound when I turn at low speeds. I have done some searching and still can't find exactly what I need to know. My question is ; should I buy offset MM bushings or center bushings? My car is a 98' GT and is lowered. (Tokiko 5 way adjustable shocks, Eibach springs) I just need to know whether I should buy the offset or centers. Also, anyone that installed them for the turning noise issue ... how do you like them? (Aluminum or urethane) Thanks in advance.
Urethane won't provide a very noticable difference over stock. I have the Aluminum bushings from MM and they are fine- don't create noise or anything. If you have the stock K-Member use the center holed bushings. The offset ones are known to turn. You will need alignment afterwards because the toe is changed (steering rack position moved backward). They eliminate some of the play in the steering wheel and make the steering more predictable especially at cornering limits. I have some noise (creaking) possibly from the CC plate bearings or something, and it didn't go away, so I'm not sure what kind of noise you have or where it is coming from. Wade
I put in mine for "steering noise" caused by sh**ty steeda offset bushings (worthless). Great cheap mod for steering feel. If you're having clunking/poping sounds it isn't likely the steering rack though... Odd's are it's your tie rod ends, or ball joints.
The clunking popping sound is your rack brackets that hold it into the k member. change these and tighten the rack bolts to hell the new rack brackets combined with the offset urethane bushings completely eliminated my clunk noise when turning the steering wheel.
wtf are "rack brackets"?? You mean the bolt guide sleeves? This shifting around doesn't cause a sound as if the bolts are properly torqued they don't move (no room too). IMO urethane rack bushings are nearly as compliant as the stock rubber bushings, and not that much of an improvement (not to mention that offset rack bushings are useless in a mostly-stock suspension setup, and nearly impossible to install level...and then if you can get them level you do so by ROTATING them in the housing...which means they will rotate once attached to the car! crapola). Solid mounting the rack didn't increase my road feel/noise at all - aluminum, :Teh-Win:
i have mm poly rack bushings and clunk is gone after install i was also told that with the solid busings they transfer harmonics from road.
DTNODYA: I agree with 1LowGT: you will get more road noise from the solid/aluminum bushings (I have them). It is not terrible but it adds a little to the general racket. Steering feel is improved over stock. Urethane bushings (center hole) would be a big improvement over stock and quieter than the aluminum bushings. As a first step, I suggest that you look at your tie-rod ends (they will clunk if worn) and make sure that the strut retaining nut is snugged down tightly (creaks during turning, if not torqued down). Chris
Thanks to you all for your responses. I know that it is my steering rack making the noise for a couple of reasons. The car is 8 years old and the rack bushings look like hell ... and I have replaced every piece of rubber imaginable on the front and rear suspension (except steering rack bushings). That's interesting about the solid aluminum bushings making more road noise .. It makes sense though. As for the tie-rod ends, I replaced them recently but that is the one thing I did not torque with a torque wrench (my friend was borrowing it.. I used a breaker bar) so I will check again to make sure they are tight enough. Sounds like no matter which bushing I get (aluminum or urethane), I should definitely get center drilled holes. Forgive the steering rack ignorance .. I have never had to mess with one before and didn't know which one was best for stock k-members but now I do.
DTNODYA: The tie-rod end nut need to be tightened to 35 to 47 lb-in (this is only 3 to 4 lb-ft!). Since your tie-rod ends are new, it is possible that the rack is worn. But do some checking to narrow down the possibilities first. With the front wheels off the ground, turn the wheels all the way to one side. Grab the wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock and see if you can reproduce the noise. Then try the same thing at 12 and 6 o'clock. Do this with the wheels full left, straight, and then full left. Then run a search in the Autocross/Suspension Forum and you will find the various methods for testing for loose/worn ball joints, loose/worn tie-rod ends, loose/worn wheel bearings, loose/worn control arm bushings, etc. along with how to fix each one. HTH, Chris
Never heard to turn the wheel all the way left to try and reproduce the noise. I will try that. I have tried the 12 & 6 push pull as well as the 9 & 3 with the wheels straight and that did not reproduce the noise but I will try turning the wheels then doing the push pull thing. The sound is like a slight clunk/pop/crack (hard to describe).. Thx for the info, I will look into it.
Well im using the offset, and I havent had a problem, and the alignment is perfect...No rotation or ****ty handling whatsoever Change out the bushings and whatever you go with, change the brackets (sleeves) also.
poping and cracking type noises are most likely the rack bushings there is evena TSB on them creaking when turning the wheel IS the tie rod ends.
It is more like a popping and cracking noise when turning than a creaking. It does not happen all the time. Another thing is, when I turn my steering wheel back and forth (barely turning the wheels) it makes a small popping sound. I replaced (in the past month) my swaybar bushings, end-links & bushings, ball joints, tie-rod ends, control arm bushings, the only thing I have not replaced is the steering rack bushings .. that is why I am pretty confident that is the rack bushings. My car had been sitting for a while (covered but outside) for two years. I was driving it about once or twice every six months .. That takes a toll on a car's bushings .. at least it did on my car and that's why I replaced all of them so I wouldn't have to anytime in the near future. Plus, I am going to start driving it more often once I get it right again. Where do I get new 'sleeves' or brackets? I am sure Ford .... I don't know jack about a steering rack.
Cool, thanks. Edited: Maximum Motorsports website has the instructions Here is the link for installation with a stock K-member from their site: http://www.maximummotorsports.com/instructions/MMST-7.pdf
Read the "friendly" manual its linked in the post directly above your but I pasted it for your conv C.MD.CI.MMST-6.pmd 1 Copyright 2005 2005.07.11 3430 Sacramento Dr., Unit D San Luis Obispo, CA 93401 Telephone: 805/544-8748 Fax: 805/544-8645 www.maximummotorsports.com MM K-Member Spherical Rack Bushings (MMST-6) Read all instructions before beginning work. Following instructions in the proper sequence will ensure the best and easiest installation. Thank you for purchasing the Maximum Motorsports Spherical Rack Bushing Kit (MMST-6). The MMST-6 kit is specifically designed for use with Maximum Motorsports Tubular K-members (MMKM-1, 1.1, 2, 2.1) purchased after 12/1/05. If you purchased your k-member before 12/1/05, please contact a MM sales representative to purchase the additional spacers needed for the proper installation of your steering rack. Solidly mounting the steering rack with aluminum bushings eliminates rack movement relative to the K-member. This improves the steering response, and the car will maintain a more precise line through a corner, requiring fewer steering corrections. In some instances, along with the improvement in steering response, comes an unwanted side effect—steering chatter at low speeds. Chatter can be caused if the steel steering rack binds up inside of the cast aluminum steering rack housing. This binding (meaning a resistance to moving freely) can happen if the rack housing is twisted when the rack is solidly attached to the K-member through solid aluminum bushings. Twisting can occur if there are irregularities in the steering rack housing. MM designed these new steering rack bushings to retain the benefits of a solidly mounted steering rack, while also preventing the twisting that can cause chatter. The MM Engineering Team’s new design includes spherical bushing sets to accommodate irregularities in the steering rack housing. This all-new steering rack bushing design allows the steering rack to be installed in any one of five possible vertical locations. The center position places the steering rack in the stock location. Two different offset positions are possible: 1/4" offset and 3/8" offset. The offset positions can be used to either raise the steering rack, reducing the height of bumpsteer spacers used at the steering arms; or to lower the rack, providing clearance for oversized oil pans. These bushings are also designed to give the proper amount of Ackerman geometry when used with a MM Kmember. While offset steering rack bushings are not recommended for use on vehicles with stock k-members, they do provide a benefit when installed with a Maximum Motorsports Kmember because of its major changes to the suspension geometry. Offset steering rack bushings are to be used along with Adjustable Tie-Rod Ends (MMTR-1 to 4). By raising the steering rack with offset steering rack bushings, the amount of spacers used between the spherical rod-end and the spindle steering arm is minimized. REMEMBER: Each car’s bumpsteer must be measured and adjusted. The MM Bumpsteer Gauge (MMT-4) includes our copyrighted instructions for measuring and adjusting bumpsteer. NOTE: Steps 2 through 6 do not apply when the MMST-6 bushings are being installed as part of the initial installation of an MM K-member that was purchased after 12/1/05. Steps 2 through 6 apply when replacing previously installed aluminum steering rack bushings with the new MMST-6 bushings. 1. Raise and support the vehicle safely on jack stands. 2. Disconnect the steering shaft from the input shaft of the steering rack. The stock steering shaft, as well as MM’s latest design shaft, has one pinch-bolt retaining the coupler to the steering rack input shaft. The pinchbolt must be completely removed to disconnect the steering shaft. Most aftermarket steering shafts have a setscrew to retain the coupler, instead of one pinch bolt. Loosen the setscrew to disconnect the steering shaft. 3. Loosen and remove the two nuts holding the steering rack to the k-member. 4. Remove the two bolts holding the steering rack to the k-member. NOTE: On some vehicles it may be necessary to move the swaybar in order to remove the steering rack mounting bolts. If necessary, disconnect the swaybar end links and rotate the bar away from the steering rack. 2005.07.11 Copyright 2005 2 C.MD.CI.MMST-6.pmd 5. Remove and discard the old aluminum rack bushings from the front of the rack. 6. Remove and discard any old spacers and washers used between the k-member and the rack mounting faces. Offset-Hole Selection Procedure We recommend mounting the steering rack as high as possible, relative to the K-member. This will reduce the height of the spacers used at the steering arm. If there is a problem with clearing the oil pan, the steering rack may need to be located at the stock location, or even offset downwards. 5.0L Engines- In general, 5.0L engines equipped with a factory oil pan have adequate clearance to offset the rack upwards, using the 3/8" offset-holes. Some aftermarket oil pans may not allow enough clearance. Follow the procedure listed below to determine how high the rack can be offset. 4.6L Modular Engines- In most cases, the oil pan of a 4.6L Modular Engine is closer to the steering rack housing than a 5.0L Engine oil pan. We DO NOT recommend beginning with the 3/8" offset-hole, as described below, to determine how high the steering rack can be offset. Instead, start by using the ¼” offset-holes in the bushings to check for clearance. Once the steering rack is positioned using the ¼” offset-holes, you can determine if there is enough room to offset the steering rack upwards using the 3/8" offset holes. We recommend at least a ¼” between the lowest part of the oil pan and the top of the steering rack to accommodate engine movement. 7. Install the three-hole aluminum rack bushings with the smaller O.D. in the front mounting holes of the steering rack. The bushings must be oriented so that all three holes lie in a vertical line. 5.0L Engine cars: Start by positioning the 3/8" offset-hole as the lowest hole in the vertical orientation. This will result in the largest upward offset of the steering rack possible. 4.6L Modular Engine cars: Start by positioning the 1/ 4" offset-hole as the lowest hole in the vertical orientation. NOTE: The 3/8" offset-hole is the hole machined closest to the edge of the steering rack bushing. 8. Using a marker, or other marking device, make an indicator line across the edges of the steering rack bushings and the steering rack housing. These lines can be used to determine if the rack bushings have rotated out of their position during later steps. 9. Place the female half of the rear Spherical Rack Bushings into the rear of the rack mounting holes. The concave portion of the bushings should face rearward in the vehicle. Orient the three holes so that they match the orientation of the holes in the front aluminum rack bushings. 10. Place one of the supplied 7/16" G8 washers under the head of each rack mounting bolt. 11. Slide the two rack mounting bolts through your chosen offset-holes of the aluminum steering rack bushings. Slide the bolts through until each one just protrudes through the rear face of the female Spherical Rack Bushings. 12. Place a male Spherical Rack Bushing behind one of the female Spherical Rack Bushings, so that the convex face is oriented towards the front of the vehicle. Slide the rack mounting bolt on through the slot of the male Spherical Rack Bushing, and into the mounting hole in the k-member. Install the other male Spherical Rack Bushing using the same procedure. NOTE: Orient the slot in the male Spherical Rack Bushing vertically. When doing so, the slot will be C.MD.CI.MMST-6.pmd 3 Copyright 2005 2005.07.11 offset towards one edge of the bushing. Make sure that the slot is offset towards the ground if the rack is being offset upwards. If the rack is being offset downwards, the slot would then be positioned to be offset upwards. 13. If using forward-offset control arms (MMFCA-4, 5, 10, 11), place one thick and one thin aluminum spacer (supplied with the MM K-member) between the kmember and the rear face of each Spherical Rack Bushing set. Pull the rack mounting-bolt far enough out of the k-member to slide the spacers onto the bolt. Fully insert the bolt into the k-member rack mounting holes. Make sure the bolt is passing through the correct offset-holes in the spacers. NOTE: The thick and the thin aluminum spacers are supplied with the MM K-member hardware kit. If installing the MMST-6 kit with an older MM K-member (purchased before 12/1/05), DO NOT reuse the aluminum spacers that originally came with the kmember. Contact an MM sales representative for the proper spacers. 14. If using the non-offset control arms (MMFCA-1, 2, 7, 8), no spacers will be used between the MM Kmember and the Spherical Rack Bushing sets. The mounting bolts should be slid right on through the kmember rack mounting holes. 15. Press the rack rearwards until the rear rack bushings are fully resting against the spacers, or the k-member. Check to see if there is any interference between the rack housing and the oil pan. If the rack housing is touching the oil pan, repeat Steps 7-14 using the next smallest offset in the rack bushings. Repeat until the steering rack has the proper clearance to the oil pan. NOTE: On some 5.0L applications, the hard line that enters the center of the rack housing may interfere with the oil pan. If this occurs, refer to the MM Kmember instructions for information about how to bend the line for more clearance. MM instructions are available on our website, maximummotorsports.com 16. Once it has been determined that the rack clears the oil pan, reconnect the steering shaft to the input shaft of the steering rack. It may be necessary to pull the rack slightly forward to slip the steering shaft over the rack input shaft. 17. Install the nuts on the rack mounting bolts and snug them up equally on each bolt. NOTE: It is very important to make sure that all of the rack bushings and spacers are in alignment as the steering rack mounting bolts are tightened. Use the marks made in Step 8 as a guide. NOTE: As the rack bolts are tightened, it may be necessary to use a large set of pliers to rotate the rack bushings into proper alignment. With a little experimentation, just the right amount of snugness on the rack bolt tightening can be found to keep the steering rack bushings from rotating too freely, yet allowing them to be repositioned by rotating them with a set of pliers. The slot in the male Spherical Rack Bushings, as well as the three holes in each spacer and steering rack bushing, should be in a vertical line. If everything is not properly aligned, not only is it possible to induce binding of the steering rack, the rack bushings may be damaged, and the rack may 2005.07.11 Copyright 2005 4 C.MD.CI.MMST-6.pmd not be centered in the chassis. An un-centered steering rack will cause the car to have an asymmetrical turning radius in each direction, as well as asymmetrical bumpsteer. 18. When all of the bushings are properly aligned, torque the steering rack mounting bolts to 55 ft-lbs. 19. If using the stock steering shaft, torque the factory pinch bolt to 25 ft-lbs. If using an aftermarket steering shaft, refer to the manufacturers instructions for the correct torque specifications. 20. If the swaybar end links were detached in Step 4, reconnect them at this time. 21. Safely lower the vehicle to the ground. NOTE: It will be necessary to measure and adjust the bumpsteer of the vehicle if the vertical position of the steering rack was changed. If the fore-aft location of the rack was changed, the toe setting must be adjusted. This kit includes: 2 Multiple Offset Rack Bushing 2 Male Spherical Washer 2 Female Spherical Washer 2 7/16” G8 washer
