I finally got my 4cyl conversion car running. Its a 93. It has a 306 with 11.1 compression GT40 heads X cam GT40 intake, MSD 6al, shorty headers and full exhaust. It is running on the stock 8cyl computer. The car runs good, idles a little rough when its cold but clears up. I have the timing at 10 degrees, I figure I could go to 12 or 14. I have no egr or smog stuff and no cats. I keep getting the ses light and I'm almost positive that it has to do with the egr stuff. Would this car benefit from a tune or chip? I've been reading about the tweecer, etc. But then I also read that you can just use a timing light, adjustable fuel pressure regulator and just play and go. I have no plans of a blower or nitrious on this car. Its just a weekend car. What do you guys think?
Do I need a tune/chip?
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ID89GT
10 Year Member
Not having the egr or smog stuff will def set a light. You can get a tune and it will take them out of the equation so that they don't set off the light.
I have the TWEECER RT & like it a lot. I think any moded car could benefit from tuning & make good mods better. With the things you deleted, I agree, you will have a check eng light. I’m no pro at this stuff but, even though this is my first build, I would rather learn how to tune than take it to a shop to have it done. With a tuner like the TWEECER RT, you can turn off things in the computer like the EGR stuff so you don’t get a CEL. Then you can use the old EGR signal wire to hook a wideband O2 sensor so you can data log AFR. You can also tell the computer that you have bigger injectors or adjust the injector timing for your cam specs which will help idle & throttle response. You could leave the base timing at 10* like it’s supposed to be & then adjust your timing electronically also. There is so much you can do with a tuner. It’s just a question of, do you want to take the time to learn how to tune or have a pro do it for ya. Nothing wrong with either choice.
f8tlfiveo
My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.
+1 90gt..I have a quarterhorse in my car and it's great. I had a guy tune my car over the phone for 100 bucks.. Well worth it. Go to EECtuning.com, slot of good information on that site. Talk to decipha on the site he is tuning my car at the moment.. He knows these things inside and out.
fox04
Member
I have the sct eliminator chip. I works great with my cam idles a lot smoother and doesnt have as much cam surge as before. And you wont have any lights on at all. I got mine from american muscle and you can get 3 tunes on it. i got a street 93 race 93 tune and a nitrous tune for race gas. It was only $250 too so cant complain. I wouldnt get nthn else unless its a dynotune
You'll be spending money to get nothing in return with a chip.
The tuning thing seems to be a hobby with foxes, but by no means is a necessity.
I ran no smog equimpment for years, for the egr delete it's as easy as a couple dollar resistor or a $25 egr simulator.
If you had extra money for tuning equipment, realistically you should have used the money on afr heads. Make no mistake, i like gt40x heads, but anyone with an extra $500 to spend should put the money in the heads not the computer.
Just saw an afr headed car make 340rwhp, stock shortblock, rpmII intake.
Everything about a fox is in the engine parts.
A car that does not idle right, is not together right, nothing in the slightest to do with the tune.
You could spend hundreds of dollars on tuning equipment, but i'll bet money you spend more and make less power than if you put that money into the engine hardware instead of the computer software.
None of the guys that run any tuning equimpment ever seem to have any dyno proof that their car makes more power.
And if the proof is that the car now idles right, all they did was fix a hardware problem with software.
Any fox combo will idle properly assembled, i've seen some of the wildest setups on a stock computer, including cars in the 650rwhp range.
I've even seen the 03 cobra engine run on a fox computer with no tuning and a distributor mounted in the Pside valve cover.
The tuning thing seems to be a hobby with foxes, but by no means is a necessity.
I ran no smog equimpment for years, for the egr delete it's as easy as a couple dollar resistor or a $25 egr simulator.
If you had extra money for tuning equipment, realistically you should have used the money on afr heads. Make no mistake, i like gt40x heads, but anyone with an extra $500 to spend should put the money in the heads not the computer.
Just saw an afr headed car make 340rwhp, stock shortblock, rpmII intake.
Everything about a fox is in the engine parts.
A car that does not idle right, is not together right, nothing in the slightest to do with the tune.
You could spend hundreds of dollars on tuning equipment, but i'll bet money you spend more and make less power than if you put that money into the engine hardware instead of the computer software.
None of the guys that run any tuning equimpment ever seem to have any dyno proof that their car makes more power.
And if the proof is that the car now idles right, all they did was fix a hardware problem with software.
Any fox combo will idle properly assembled, i've seen some of the wildest setups on a stock computer, including cars in the 650rwhp range.
I've even seen the 03 cobra engine run on a fox computer with no tuning and a distributor mounted in the Pside valve cover.
f8tlfiveo
My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.
Everyone has an opinion.. I plan on getting my car dynoed again after it is done getting tuned so we will see if there is a difference. I am already getting better mileage out of the car also.
Flavadave4
Active Member
I would pull the codes and see what they are first. If you have deleted the EGR stuff you will definatly be getting a light from that.
If your MAF and injectors are matched, fuel pressure and timing are simple ways to fine tune. 38-40 PSI on the regulator with the vac line pulled at idle is where you will want to be and as much initial timing as you can get with out detonation (pinging)...remove the spout when using the timing light.
Check out the surging idle check list in the stickys, go through that to pin point your idle issues.
If your MAF and injectors are matched, fuel pressure and timing are simple ways to fine tune. 38-40 PSI on the regulator with the vac line pulled at idle is where you will want to be and as much initial timing as you can get with out detonation (pinging)...remove the spout when using the timing light.
Check out the surging idle check list in the stickys, go through that to pin point your idle issues.
Well I checked my fuel pressure idling with the vacuum line off and capped. It was at 40 psi. Then I installed my msd 6al and bumped the timing to 12 degrees, and now the car seems to idle better and run better. I have an aftermarket fuel pump and an adjustable regualtor with 24lbs injectors. Should I try 14 degrees? I also pulled my codes. Most of them were the egr and the thermo sensor. All of that stuff is gone so I see why am I getting the codes. The other codes I got were TPS voltage was off and code 12 which is idle too low. Any suggestions?
Like said above...look for the "Idle Surge Checklist" on this sight. One of the first things in the checklist is setting idle and TPS voltage. Should help out with the idle and that part of the CEL. Good luck!
Base idle reset, and make sure the tps is within it's operational range...
Check for codes again...
What the op has shouldn't need a tune to run right...
But, there are guys who will say that NO ONE could benefit from a tune... not even a 408w with a cam, etc... but some of us know that little details like Injector timing can make a big difference in how the car runs... not sure how to quantify drivability on a dyno though...
(relax, just joking around... LOL)
jason
Check for codes again...
What the op has shouldn't need a tune to run right...
But, there are guys who will say that NO ONE could benefit from a tune... not even a 408w with a cam, etc... but some of us know that little details like Injector timing can make a big difference in how the car runs... not sure how to quantify drivability on a dyno though...
(relax, just joking around... LOL)
jason
Ya i'm serious.
If a car does not idle it has nothing to do with a tune or chip.
People come to this site all the time looking for advice on tuning to get their car idle.
But the problem is unrelated, jrickers checklist pretty much covers all the real causes for a bad idle.
So every person who's ever said that their idle improved with a good tune was full of it.
I don't doubt some people get a better idle, but why they get a better idle could be questioned, and what was missing from the equation that caused the poor idle.
Changing things on the tune with mild cars to get them to idle is a bandaid.
It's almost as if people run out of ideas on how to get a car to idle so they just assume the computer will fix it.
Pretty much just laziness at this point, especially with the checklist spelling it out.
hehe,
I guess I'm full of it...
I had been through the checklist, found a couple issues and corrected them... and still wanted to settle things down at idle.
I tried tuning with a tweecer at first and noticed immediate improvements in idle and part throttle.
The single biggest improvement was when I corrected the Injector Timing. It was like driving a different car. In fact a relative who had only been in the car once before the injector timing change, and once after the change could notice the difference...
But I guess my 'experience' can be quickly discredited because I didn't get the results verified on a dyno...
I'm not saying that EVERY car needs a tune. And if you have hardware issues, then they need to be addressed...
But to say that all Fox Body owners with a tune were just wasting their time & money is rubbish.
I guess I'm full of it...
I had been through the checklist, found a couple issues and corrected them... and still wanted to settle things down at idle.
I tried tuning with a tweecer at first and noticed immediate improvements in idle and part throttle.
The single biggest improvement was when I corrected the Injector Timing. It was like driving a different car. In fact a relative who had only been in the car once before the injector timing change, and once after the change could notice the difference...
But I guess my 'experience' can be quickly discredited because I didn't get the results verified on a dyno...
I'm not saying that EVERY car needs a tune. And if you have hardware issues, then they need to be addressed...
But to say that all Fox Body owners with a tune were just wasting their time & money is rubbish.
Am i surprised you want to turn this into the typical pissing match like you usually do? Not at all.
I feel you spread BS and you feel the same about me. Fair enough. I realize you are offended because you are into the tuning scene and i make posts suggesting others don't waste their time or money on it. That's something i can't help.
But I don't reference your posts or our previous incident. How about you do the same?
How about this idea, keep it relevant.
Do you think it would be beneficial for the OP to spend $500 on tuning equipment on what appears to be a mild budget orientated x cam h/c/i setup?
I feel you spread BS and you feel the same about me. Fair enough. I realize you are offended because you are into the tuning scene and i make posts suggesting others don't waste their time or money on it. That's something i can't help.
But I don't reference your posts or our previous incident. How about you do the same?
How about this idea, keep it relevant.
Do you think it would be beneficial for the OP to spend $500 on tuning equipment on what appears to be a mild budget orientated x cam h/c/i setup?
f8tlfiveo
My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.
I agree with vristang.. My idle is much better after a tune..I tried the checklist also.. Drivability is better with a tune also.. Some people just don't understand though..
You have freshened up gt40p heads correct?
Exactly what kind of idling and driveability problems did those create?
It can be hard for people including me to understand why some guys get 320-650rwhp cars to run flawless without programs and others can't get 275rwhp to run right without a programmer.
I'd say judging by the posts i see the common denominator for the issues are the Mass air meter and or the injectors.
Guys that run PMAS or the old pro m meters don't seem to need programming like guys with lightning and C&L meters.
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