I'm about to start building a forged longblock from the ground up for plans of putting on a Kenne Bell 2.2 Supercharger on later next summer. Just had a couple questions on some of the engine components. I was wondering what the best type of piston would you go for the Kenne Bell, dished, flat or domed and what cc and bore. Currently I was thinking about (ModMax 220-25200-20 CP 17cc Power Dished 3.572"(+.020) 2618 Alloy Pistons). Also as far as cylinder heads I was looking at a set of the SHM 4.6L 2V P.I. Full Race Heads with the following specs (Intake flows 225 cfm, 0.600” lift, Exhaust flows 205 cfm, 0.600” lift, 47cc chamber volume) paired with some Comp Cams XE270AH Hot Street PI Modular Xtreme Energy Cams. Any other suggestions for heads? Thanks.
Forged Engine Buildup for Kenne Bell 2.2
- Thread starter CaliLove692
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I'd suggest you go with both pistons and rods and buy them together as a kit, pre-balanced. You'll end up saving yourself time and money in the long run. I've got Diamond pistons in mine and Manley Rods. I stuck with the stock crank, since they're apparently good for the 600hp range, but if you're planning on making anywhere near that, I'd upgrade that too.
If you're going with the 2.2L, then my guess is, that you're going to want to run fairly significant boost levels. If this is the case, look into a set of 19cc dished pistons at least (22cc would be better if you can afford them). When you're moving a lot of air, like the 2.2L does, you want to keep the compression ratio in check to stay out of detonation and keep things within the limit of street gas.
The SHM heads are a good idea, since you're gonna want a set of castings that will keep up with the flow of the blower.
This is where I got all my stuff, http://www.modularperformance.com/ you should check them out and give them a call to see what they recommend.
If you're going with the 2.2L, then my guess is, that you're going to want to run fairly significant boost levels. If this is the case, look into a set of 19cc dished pistons at least (22cc would be better if you can afford them). When you're moving a lot of air, like the 2.2L does, you want to keep the compression ratio in check to stay out of detonation and keep things within the limit of street gas.
The SHM heads are a good idea, since you're gonna want a set of castings that will keep up with the flow of the blower.
This is where I got all my stuff, http://www.modularperformance.com/ you should check them out and give them a call to see what they recommend.
So you suggest to run 19cc or 22cc pistons witht the Kenne Bell 2.2? I would like to crank the boost to 20psi as long as the long block can handle it safely. What compression would I be getting with the 19 and 22cc pistons. Also as far as connecting rods would you go witht the Manley H Beams or Manley I Beams with that much boost. Last what kind of numbers should I expect to get with that setup (rwhp and rwtq)? Thanks
19cc would put you at about 9.1:1CaliLove692 said:
22cc would put you at about 8.8:1
25cc would put you at about 8.5:1
For 20psi out of a the 2.2L KB, I'd recommend the 25cc slugs. Either the H or I beam rods would be fine. The jury is still out on which ones are the stronger of the two, but either one will suit your needs. If you really want to guarantee strength, you could go with a set of billet rods, but they’re about twice the price. But hey, if you’re going with a 2.2KB, fully prepped heads and a built engine……spending money is what it’s all going to be about anyway.
There are so many different variables that could play a part on how much power you’ll be making at these levels, but with a full host of intake and exhaust mods a proper tune, and depending on whether or not your fuel system is up to the task of supporting your horsepower goals expect to see 625-650rwhp.
Check out GI Joe 97/02 and Jimfitzgerald as well as a couple of other guys on this sites set-ups. They'll be able to give you a better idea as to the cost, power, times and reliability you can expect out of this combination.
before you build ur motor i suggest u read sean hyland's book How To Build Max-Performance 4.6-Liter FORD ENGINES
in the book they suggest using flat top pistons, because the low compression would make the motor sluggish, they also say a positive displacement supercharger is more prone to detonation... by running stock compression you don't have to run excessive boost levels (20psi) because pressure does not necessarily translate to more power
in the book they suggest using flat top pistons, because the low compression would make the motor sluggish, they also say a positive displacement supercharger is more prone to detonation... by running stock compression you don't have to run excessive boost levels (20psi) because pressure does not necessarily translate to more power
Where this may hold true for a Cetrifugal or PD blower car, running moderate levels of boost, the low compression pistons are essential to the survival to an engine with a hard spinning charger behind it.....one with a 2.2L KB making 20psi especially. And I’ve never seen a sluggish engine with a positive displacement blower bolted to the top of it yet.akautosport said:
Check out the Lightning, Cobra and Ford GT. All these are positive displacement blown and all are running an 8.5:1 compression for longevity.Positive displacement blowers are more prone to detonation because for one, they make more heat than a Centrifugal blower and two the move a larger volume of air in a single revolution than a Centrifugal does. This is why you see almost instantaneous boost with them and the necessity for a fuel system that will keep up to this high volume of airflow. When compression gets too high, combustion temperatures rise causing the computer to add fuel and pull timing in order to hold things together. Going with a more reserved compression ratio in this case allows for more timing and cooler combustion temperatures…..and the product of such, is more power.
Just buy a built longblock from Modular Powerhouse with Tim's race ported heads and cams. That's what I'm running with my 2.2 KB. My pistons are 21 cc CP's. I have Oliver Racing billet rods. I'm currently at around 18 psi with a 7.5 inch crank pulley, but getting ready to install an 8.0 inch pulley. If you do this, you could sell your stock longblock.
white99gt
Founding Member
akautosport said:
SHM blabla bla..
He is full of crap,I would not recommend buying ANYTHING from him,poor customer service and prices are out of this world. ..
I run 8.5:1 and mine doesnt run "sluggish".My old setup ran 9.5:1 and didnt have detonation ..It depends on the tuner and engine builder.
On a mod motor i suggest a good KNOWN engine builder.steen racing ,modular performance,modular powerhouse,renagade racing(my builder),vt engine.This is to just name a few.
To add my builder is in your area..So it would be simple to get it done "local".
What piston would you recommend for a compression ratio of 8.1:1 with the SHM PI Full Race Heads and where could I purchase them at. Also I think I'm going to end up spending the extra money on some Oliver Billet I Beams... Where could I purchase these for the best deal, I've been looking online to find a place to purchase these but haven't had any luck. Thanks
white99gt
Founding Member
CaliLove692 said:
Like i posted easlier..Stay away from SHm unless you want to build it twice..
Second unless you plan on 700+rwhp all the time..Normal h beam manley rods will do the trick just fine.
You dont need 8.1 to compression, i run 8.8 and the car runs great..
back_in_black
New Member
I would go to Tim at modular powerhouse to build your engine, don't try to piece it together yourself
Mehh, if you've ever built one in the past, you'll see that it's not rocket science. I’ll agree, that if you've never had one apart and aren't mechanically inclined to begin with, then building a mill capable of handling 700+hp right off the bat might be a little over ones head, but the rotating assembly is usually sold pre balanced from most companies, which takes most of the guess work out of it for you. Otherwise, it’s no less tolerant than building any other engine.
back_in_black
New Member
I'm jusy saying let a experienced company do the entire block so that you don't have to learn anything the hard way. just like anything else, the first few times you do things you are learning and mistakes and or better ways to do things are learned, someone that builds these blocks all the time will have better knowledge than someone selling parts to you over the phone.....JMO...I'm sure you're right about the rotating assemblies...your car sounds nice calilove692 ! post pictures if you can !!
hognutz
New Member
I would just call modularpowerhouse. they have done quite a few cars like this. I would use there heads as well. I would avoid SHM. overpriced IMO.
As far as your part selection I would not look at off the shelf cams and such. just have VT, comp, etc grind some cams for your combo. at this power level and price I would look to optimize the combo. the advantage of a place like MPH is they have built this combo a few times and will most likely have some nice insight into what went right and what could have been done better if any.
you will be hard pressed to find anyone other than a performance shop that has done this enough times to give great advice. the mod motors are not a SBC or SBF that has been around for decades.
As far as your part selection I would not look at off the shelf cams and such. just have VT, comp, etc grind some cams for your combo. at this power level and price I would look to optimize the combo. the advantage of a place like MPH is they have built this combo a few times and will most likely have some nice insight into what went right and what could have been done better if any.
you will be hard pressed to find anyone other than a performance shop that has done this enough times to give great advice. the mod motors are not a SBC or SBF that has been around for decades.
back_in_black
New Member
something I learned as well, if MPH builds an engine for you they use better cams than if you mail order from them, so I was told by Tim, they don't want their cam numbers getting around.
back_in_black
New Member
I was looking at the engines from modularpowerhouse but noticed they don't have the setup dave with the 02 gt has. I emailed them and was told it was the longblock they have on their site but the one they have listed is using stage 2 heads instead of the stage 3 and it is a stroker with ross pistons...
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