I just read a thread in which Grady states that a 77 or 80 mm MAF is more accurate and something about not moving enough air. I have a new 70mm throttle body that I'm waiting to purchase a MAF and install both at the same time. I was going to stick with the 19lbs to see if they are enough but willing to go up if needed. Anybody?
Pro-M meters only for our finicky computer. I'm not bashing C&L's stuff at all. I've owned a C&L 73MM, C&L 76MM, Pro-M Bullet 75MM, Pro-M 77MM and my present one is a Pro-M 80MM. The bullet blew chunks on my car with 24# injectors. Pro-M admitted there was issue with this meter and those injectors back in 2001. From what I've seen that may be no longer. My dyno session with that meter turned inton 20 dyno pulls and about 5 hours. I switched to a 77MM and ran that from 2001-2004. Its from a FOX and it cleaned up all the issues I had with the bullet. My current meter is excellent as well. I say all that because don't be like me and go through a bunch of meters. Buy the best one now and stick with it forever. If you can find a Pro-M 77MM for decent money get it. I prefer the shorty version as it will fit under the hood in every situation. However the 80MM is plentiful so you should be able to pick one up easily. Those are the only two I recommend.
I have had both C&L and Pro-M's. I currently run my 80mm Pro-M for a reason, it's better IMHO than the C&L. Much more accurate, and it comes with a flowsheet, which is great for self-tuning. EDIT: What are your mods? Because seriously, unless you have heads/cam or a supercharger or the like, you really don't need bigger injectors/maf.
Here is my entire set up. Trickflow H/C/I , CAI, BBK shorties, 160 therm. , 3:73's, AODE with 2100/2300 stall, EPC valve turned up for harder shifts, blaster coil, MSD rotor and cap, 19lb injectors, 70mm throttle body yet to be installed. 4 cats, no mufflers on stock midpipe. stock 17 rims 255 45 17 tires Will the 19 injectors be enough with a 77 or 80mm MAF? I have the number of the new company that most of the pro m people went to. Any suggestions of where to grab the Pro M
Yes, you need a bigger maf, and you really need bigger injectors too. You can scoop that maf on eBay, but you will need to get it recalibrated by Pro-M for bigger injectors if you get some. It costs $100 to do this. http://www.massairsystems.com/ That's their website. I'd STRONGLY recommend some 30lb injectors and a Pro-M maf for that setup (that's what I run). That's far from stock bro!
Post the link for the 80. A few things, first the cold air kit won't work with a Pro-M 77MM, or 80MM. These kits are designed for 4 bolt flanged meters like the stocker (Pro-M has one and so does C&L). Also that 160 stat isn't really a good thing. It will cycle way too much and could lead to inaccurate water temps (fluctuation). I use to run one back in the day. A 180 is the best choice. With your mods you need to go up an injector size maybe two if you find a deal on a matching meter and injectors. Check the classifieds on both here and the Corral. Also check turbomustangs.com. Since you have a CAI (not sure which) you could do what I did (see pic below). I used half the kit and ditched the 90 degree bendy part.
I messed up and missed a 77mm with 24 or 30lb injectors that sold on ebay for 250.00. I forgot the price on the meter I mentioned above for 285.00.
Dammit Joe, You make me jealous with your engine. I looked at Brenspeed and see what your talking about CAI not working, I don't like the look of the heat box that comes with the inlet, meter, etc. You set up looks nice. I like the way my filter is in the fender well, I prefer that over the box but performance is more important to me. I agree with both of you regarding the injectors, I was just hoping not to have to pull the intake. I will try and post the ebay add. Be right back.
You will only have to pull the upper intake. It's only a few bolts. Don't take the elbow and throttle body off the upper. It can be pulled in one peice. Just unhook all the connectors and vacuum lines. It takes about 10 minutes to pull just the upper off.
Pass on that. I've seen meter and injector packages for a tad more than that. If you can find a Pro-M 77 or 80MM calibrated for 30# injectors I can get you the injectors for $110 (used) which is half the price of new. I bought my Pro-M 77MM on this site for $200 shipped. Keep looking....
Joe, I will heed your advice regarding the 160. It runs cold forever, for only a few bucks I will get a 180. While we are on the subject of pulling the intake and throttle body....I purchase a jumper that is "supposed to help' in checking the TPS voltage. When I replace the stock Throttlebody with the 70mm, should I get a egr delete plate and bypass/ cap for headers or is it worth the 100.00 in parts, is there any hp to be gained?
Don't bypass the EGR, it helps with emissions and fuel economy, and it's shut off at WOT so there are no performance gains to be had by deleting it. I also say pass on the maf. A friend of mine hooked me up for mine for $150.
Thanks CMAN, When we did the whole trickflow set up I had a friend of a friend with a 88 Notchback with somewhat the same set up give me some S!@T about leaving the egr and smog hooked up. Ohio is liberal with inspections but I did not want to chance it. I will leave it as is.....
Our cars tend to run hot anyway so at 160 degrees the stat would stay open just about all the time. Its basically running the car with no stat. Keep the emissions stuff on. Just install the TB. I'm not sure what you mean by TPS jumper.
The "throttle position sensor", it is hooked on the side of the throttle body. The tech at trickflow states it should be at .98 with engine off and key turned on, other than that I'm not sure exacty what it's for. I paid 20 bucks shipped. This harness is basically a jumper with the lines open so that you may use a voltage meter more easily.
As far as MAF's go...IMHO #1. Factory MAF's like the LMAF/03-04 cobra MAF. #2. Pro-M (or whatever they are now) #3. C&L...like said not bad but just tend to be more picky with our ECU. At your stage I agree inj. are prob. a good thing, and with our ECU a tune would be wise as well so the #1 and inj. with a tune would be a good idea/plan, you can get great WOT perf. with tricks but the only real way IMHO to get STOCK drivability is going to be a tune...were you tell the ECU what the MAF is seeing as far as air flow and tell the ECU what inj. you actually have in the sucker instead of some "fooling" like done with #2 & #3. Like mentioned above the EGR is not a problem...the problem is the EGR timing tables at mid load areas it is NOT good, and removing it only makes it worse as the ECU "thinks" it has that EGR gas (so a slight rich cond.) and then you have LARGER det. issues. Getting the fan settings to jive with the t-stat is also a GREAT thing to do as ford has the fans set at 220* that is KINDA hot.
