Hello everyone new member seeking professional help!

Discussion in 'Fox Engine Swaparoo' started by 84GT351, Jan 26, 2012.


  1. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Man, it's tough to argue paying bills off...gotta try and keep your guys' head above water ya know. Just save where you can, and you'll thank yourself later for not making hasty/costly decisions later. Many if not most of us had to learn the hard way that breaking stuff isn't cheap, and when you have to do it multiple times, then it's just dam frustrating. So, you've got your goal set: 12s...that can be accomplished easily with a 351 in a fox body. Now, you just need to realize that the engine is only about a third of the equation. Fox bodies need traction-that requires better than stock or modified stock parts (you can box weld your factory control arms and save some there). Once you can get up to speed, you need to be able to rapidly slow the car...again, brakes in '84 left much to be desired...there was no difference between 4 cylinder and GT brakes until '87! So, keep that in mind...upgrades don't have to be drastic to make a significant difference, but they do need to be executed using good parts that are known to work.

    ...learning this stuff comes pretty quickly if you're willing to understand it...do plenty of research and find out what works for others too...
    #21
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  2. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    Ok, already have good ignition parts-check...

    If you're still running the 7.5, just don't beat on it too much, and try to take care of what you have right now...you can stay 4 lug with the 8.8...lots of people do. If you like the wheels, no need to swap right now.

    Zero deck is where the machinist will cut the deck surface down to where the pistons are even with the deck when at top dead center (TDC). You mentioned the pistons being down in the hold like 0.020" I thought. If you zero deck the block, not only will it square up any warpage, but it will also increase compression since the pistons are now even with the deck-AND-since they're closer to the deck, that increases something known as quench...quench is the phenomenon where turbulence is increased during combustion-this promotes better flame travel, and complete combustion. What that translates to, is less need for timing, and better power.

    Probably the best thing you can do with the engine out is get a set of subframe connectors-even an inexpensive set with seat braces is better than nothing...although I would recommend full length versions-they usually run about $130 or so depending on brand. Also, weld up the rear control arm mounts upper and lower-this will aide in chassis rigidity, and help keep you from ripping the factory spot welds when you launch hard.

    New cam bearings would be a necessity if you have the block cleaned...the stuff a machinist will use to clean the block tears up the bearings...or at least, thats what the guy I used to go to told me...he could've just be squeaking out another $50. The short of it is, it's a good idea, along with honing the cylinders, and installing some brass freeze plugs.
    #22
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  3. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    I just saw a set of RHS pro-topline heads with a 58cc combustion chamber on eBay for $1050 buy it now...I'm not sure how they stack up comparatively though...never really did much reading on them
    #23
  4. 84GT351

    84GT351 New Member

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    Thanks for the great info. This quench phenomenom intrigues me. piston being right up against block, does that make it more diffcult down the road to get different parts/strokers or are all 351w pistons gonna be about same height when they are at TDC regardless of the other variable?. If you can sort of understand what im trying to say. I live in odessa tx we do have a couple local shops that do the work so what might i expect to pay for this. I have started listing my old parts on cragslist to try and get more moola for this build I think I will need just a bit more to do it right and get what I want. i'll try ebay if they don't sell before long. thanks again for great info.
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  5. 84GT351

    84GT351 New Member

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    and when using a compression calculator if my block is zero decked I would enter 0 for deck clearance right.
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  6. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    You shouldn't have any difficulty finding pistons when/if you go to rebuild it later. Most pistons I've seen apart from custom stuff will have a standard compression height (distance between pin boss center and piston crown). If you're concerned about it, have it taken down to about 0.005" in the hole, and you'll still be fine. The first stroker I built, pistons were 0.008" out of the hole...all tolerances were fine...close but still good.

    You're gonna have to shop around to be honest though bud, any machinist worth a damn isn't cheap. But, decking will probably be the most expensive part other than balancing.
    #26
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  7. 84GT351

    84GT351 New Member

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    OK well if it's no more then balancing it is I'm not worried to much just always sort of figured machine work cost more then it really does. The one machine shop I have called I asked about a couple things such as balancing and was told $190 stock crank $210 393 crank, boring and honing $120, putting new pistons on rods $45. I will be sure to post some pics up as soon as I have something coming together just might take a little bit longer then I thought I am going to try and do it right like you were saying with out cutting to many corners. would hate to have it rushed like I tend to do when I get excited about something and it destroy itself or just not function as I wish it would. Thanks for the push in the right direction.
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  8. GameCock5.0

    GameCock5.0 Active Member

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    IMO, with a $2000 budget, I would rebuild your original 302.
    Get it running and have a reliable ride to and from work.
    Slowly work your drivetrain/chassis up to par to be able to run 12's.
    Once the drivetrain/chassis are there, slowly start your 351 build, going slow peice by peice.
    Take your time, save up for each part you need, and learn with the process.
    Building a 12 second car that you want to last shouldn't be done hastily on a tight budget.
    In the end, you will have a reliable, 12 second foxbody, a wealth of knowledge about your own car, and a sense of satisfaction knowing you built something with your own 2 hands that will last and is worth having.
    #28
  9. 84GT351

    84GT351 New Member

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    Yeah if I knew then what I do now I would have. Since I have it though it's going in for sure. I have decided to go slower on the build and have how decided forged pistons are one item I shall be getting to be safe when zero decked and running at the higher compression will stick with stock crank if shop deems it worthy (i'm sure it is looks fine) i'll start there along with buying all my swap pieces. and see how far I get before running out of funds. Then i'll see where i'm at.

    Any forged pistons that you can recomend on the cheaper side.?
    #29
  10. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    I think sealed power makes some for a fair price...might wanna look at probe FPS too...
    #30
  11. 84GT351

    84GT351 New Member

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    Hello again how has it been going.

    I finished pulling my engine apart and have found somethings that werent or may not be right. water jacket cover.jpg My water jackets were full on the pump/timing chain cover side along with on engine. I was able to take my finger and push the stuff from the engine but the timing chain cover is pretty solid. Can that cause any issues I should know about?

    MY bores at the very top of the cyclinders have a ridge bore.JPG at first I thought maybe they had alot of wear but I can still see very hard to but can see crosshatching. Was this part of the engine design or is it just like the junk the develops in the heads on the valves?

    My crank shat has small very small not seeable but you can feel there is a ridge in the center where the main bearings are crankshaft1.jpg crankshaft.jpg bearings.JPG are these little ridges ok because of the bearings having the slot on top side of engine or is this bad. Two of my bearings on the other side that screws down crank in place had copper showing one alot more then other. If replacing my crank is the route then I believe I will be looking at the entire 393 stroker from dss since its not much more then buying a crank and pistons. What are your or anyones thought on this.
    #31
  12. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    The blockage you showed will definitely cause some heating issues if you don't get rid of it. the ring ridge isn't out of the ordinary for a high mileage engine. Sometimes the "ridge" is only carbon deposits, but scratch through that crud with a razor or something like that, and you might find a ring ridge too. And based on the condition of your crank, it probably has a ring ridge, and if you can catch a nail on pretty much any surface, it'll need machined. If you saw copper, that means either the engine was high mileage, or led a rough life...possibly both. You don't have to replace the crank though unless it has to be heavily ground. Take it to your machinist, and they can likely grind it down 0.010-0.020" and it would be fine. It's been a while, but I seem to recall paying about $120 to have the crank ground...probably a little more these days. But, if you buy a stroker kit, you typically have to buy new rods too.

    I'd think you can still get out for about $1500 for a fresh shortblock with forged pistons. But, talk to your machinist and see what all you could work out.
    #32
  13. Rick 91GT

    Rick 91GT SN Certified Technician Site Sponsor

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    Well based on the pics I think it had a veery rough life, Ive never seen coolant passages that packed and it definitely had less then ideal oil changes....

    The crank looks like a polish will clean it up but really it needs to be measured and looked at to be sure. If you decide to go 393 let me know, Ill hook you up...
    #33
  14. mercurycapri

    mercurycapri Member

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    It may be a good idea to pull a 1987 and up roller 5.0 block from a pick n pull. They have forged pistons the 90's blocks have hyper pistons. Then get a pair of GT40 heads from either 5.0 explorer or mustang cobra. They are all over ebay and sometimes craigslist. Put it together with a good camshaft and intake. It will run strong and go fast. Thats what I did and my car is fast. I don't know what it would do it a 1/4 mile maybe mid to high 13's. Cheap way to build a good motor. I have problems tuning edelbrock carbs because I don't know what im doing. I like Holley I put them on and it runs great. Nothing against edelbrock.
    #34
  15. txstang84

    txstang84 Active Member

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    ...pretty sure the OP is already set on his decision to run a 351...parts are nearly equivalent in price-just the initial cost of buying 351 parts. Even a mild build will be capable of putting him in the 12s with traction.
    #35

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