help me decide: 302 or 351

[99FiveOh]

Here's the deal. I've always dreamed of having a 351W based combination in a Mustang, but never got around to doing it.

I have at my disposal an Explorer engine with kinda high miles(128K) so I'm wanting to rebuild it even though the shortblock is in phenomenal condition! And my Explorer engine has the original GT40 heads (non P). I'll probably have to spend around a grand to get my motor and heads worked on and all put together.

Now, I have located several 351 longblocks that are roller engines and have lower mileage and cost about 500-600$. With the lower mileage I could just install the engine in my car the way it is and be done with it. I understand I'd need a few hundred more bucks worth of parts to get it to work in my car.

I figure when all is said and done I'll have about the same amount in either route I go and I'm pretty sure the 351 won't make as much power (am I wrong ) as the GT40 Based 302.

My plan is to sell off the Explorer motor including the heads and intake manifold to try and recoupe some of the cash I have in the 351 swap.

Any thoughts? Advice? I want a good engine that can take abuse from a turbo/supercharger in the future.

 

[BlackVert]

um ... no brainer. 351

 

[Pokageek]

351. You can always add parts to blow away the 302. C. I. PLUS stronger block = winner.

 

[99FiveOh]

Thanks guys! Now, on a BARE MINIMUM budget, what parts can I get from salvage yards to get this 351 to fit into my car?

One more thing, should I go ahead and sell my GT40 heads or should I use them on the 351? I believe the lightning's had GT40's correct?

 

[ProKiller]

460!

well if it was me, i would put in the explorer motor in now as it is to get the car running and hold you over for now. then start sourcing your 351 engine and parts and build it on the side right the first time. then once its all done, just do a swap. the gt40 heads on the 351 will choke the crap out of it. you need something bigger IMO

 

[1slow95]

IIRC, the 95 Cobra R had the GT-40 heads on a 351. You'll make decent power, but a set of AFR's or Twisted Wedge heads would definitely help.

I think bare minimum you'll need: dizzy, lower intake, oil pan. 302 style shorty headers should work, but you might need to modify the H/X-pipe since the 351 is wider and taller. All the 94-95 accessories will work, but you'll need a longer belt.


Also, IMO
351 > 302
347 > 351
408+ > 347

 

[S351Saleen77]

Do the 351....but then again what else would you expect me to say??

You can always switch out for bigger heads, etc, etc later.

 

[99FiveOh]

460!

well if it was me, i would put in the explorer motor in now as it is to get the car running and hold you over for now. then start sourcing your 351 engine and parts and build it on the side right the first time. then once its all done, just do a swap. the gt40 heads on the 351 will choke the crap out of it. you need something bigger IMO

My car is running right now, it's got the bone stock 302 in it. It doesn't smoke and purrs like a kitten, but while driving it you can really feel the miles on it. As you wind it out through the RPMs it just feels wore out!

So here's what I'm thinking.

Sell the GT40 heads and Explorer intake (which is polished now )
Use that money along with my 1000.00 budget to get the 351 longblock and all the little stuff I'll need and drop the motor in as is and mod it later.

Right at the start I'll go for the Typhoon 351 intake. While probably not the best intake for a 351, I'm sure it'll flow alot better than a stock 5.0 fox upper with a truck lower!

What about the fuel rails, isnt' there something I have to do to widen them? What did you guys do? or is there a rail that you can buy all ready to go?

Thanks a bunch guys!

 

[99FiveOh]

BTW, what would be a good asking price for the explorer block, heads and intake seperately?

 

[final5-0]

Do the 351....but then again what else would you expect me to say??

You can always switch out for bigger heads, etc, etc later.

What Tom said

I like the part where you said ... Roller Block

Grady

 

[BlackVert]

i changed my mind ... if you are going to drive it on the street, go with a 302 ... see this:

http://forums.stangnet.com/784930-deep-doo-doo.html

i'll tell you what ... and i'm dead serious about this ... sell your car and give me the money you got for it and the 2-3 grand it would cost you to build and install the 351 in your car, and you can have my car. in all likelyhood, it'll be sitting in my driveway with no license plates for a while.

 

[99FiveOh]

c'mon man, don't tease me like that! And have you seen my car? go look at my 5 speed swap thread, I seriously doubt I could even get 2K out of it. The body on it is really rough! And with the tired 302 between the frame rails, it's not exactly "saleable" material.

Sorry to hear about your "deep doo doo"

 

[1slow95]

The stock fuel rails fit, but you need longer hoses to connect each side together. Mine came with my intake, but you should be able to find some at one of your local auto parts stores.

 

[BlackVert]

i am serious ... but i was also thinking that, all told, it would end up somewhere around 8 grand.

so let me put it this way, and again i am serious ... if you can scrape together 8 grand, my car is yours.

 

[99FiveOh]

I guess 8 g's is an alright deal....

However, I could do ALOT to my car for 8 grand. I could get my New edge body that I want, swap the 94 drive train into it along with an aluminum headed 351 and a nice S trim kit to boot!

 

[Stopsign32v]

I will never build another 302

 

[99FiveOh]

question: I want to get a flywheel from the auto parts store, what application should I get for the 351? I had them pull up a 95 F150 5 speed and it looked correct. Any ideas?

Also, is the cam in a late model E150 van gonna be good enough for a little while? Or should I throw the HO cam out of my motor in it?

Thanks guys.

 

[revhead347]

I would get a flywheel from one of the good aftermarket guys. I think a billet steel flywheel is only about $200, and they will know exactly what to sell you. Jobs like this tend to nickel and dime you to death. $8K is not too far out.

Kurt

 

[Stopsign32v]

question: I want to get a flywheel from the auto parts store, what application should I get for the 351? I had them pull up a 95 F150 5 speed and it looked correct. Any ideas?

Also, is the cam in a late model E150 van gonna be good enough for a little while? Or should I throw the HO cam out of my motor in it?

Thanks guys.

I say aluminum flywheel. They have weights you can take off and change so you should never have to get another flywheel again unless you change to a different input shaft.

Why not just get a cheap OTS cam now that will give you more power? A cam is CHEAP! Don't be such a cheap ass. It will end up costing you more anyways.

 

[99FiveOh]

Because I don't have that much cash to throw around. I know how to get things done on the cheap and I don't need a fancy flywheel for a stock 351W. I want to get the motor in then work on it as fund permit. If the motor is 500 bucks then getting it put in can't be more than another grand.

Cam is the same HO firing order, correct? A cast iron 28oz flywheel will work, correct? Which application is the same was my question.

A few gaskets, hood, oil pan, intake manifold, flywheel, balancer (another question..lol), headers and new set of motor mounts will ge the job done.

My water pump is brand spanking new so I'll reuse it. My friend at Advance said he'll damage out the flywheel I just bought for my 5 speed swap and exchange it for a 28oz if I get him the correct application. Same with the harmonic balancer. Which application for the balancer?