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Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by satinleafct, Aug 30, 2009.
good stuff, thank you sir
so cal is waste of money but american muscle says cal with tuners get u like 40 hp ..
Buy a CAI for looks only. Nothing gofast about it.
I disagree.............any decent intake like JLT C&L etc flows a crap load more than the stock air box. More air+more fuel=more power
Not necessarily true at all. What good is a CAI over the stock airbox when that is not the bottleneck/restriction?
If the stock part provides more than enough air for the biggest restriction, then you won't see a gain in HP by putting on a part that flows more. That is a fact.
Where is the biggest restriction that these cars see stock? The 3V Heads. The stock airbox provides more than enough air for the stock heads.
Tuning to the best A/F ratio that the engine likes, a CAI might show 0.05HP improvement over the stock airbox. That is the key to where the power is, the A/F ratio that the particular engine likes...
So you're saying the heads are the bottleneck, not the intake and filter? Do you have hard numbers to back up your statement? The heads and intake manifold flow a ton for stock pieces, so I have a hard time believing that they are the problem, and not the OE intake
Are you really that dumb?
CNL Performance did a lot of testing on products that they sell. They claim that the factory air filter and intake tube flows 550 CFM of air( 1 ). That is far more than the 225 CFM that the stock heads do and the 293 CFM that BBR ported 3V heads flow.( 2 ) That is also more than the 317 CFM that the C&L intake manifold flows which outflows the stock intake manifold.( 3 )
1) 05-09 Mustang GT C&L Air Induction System
2) BBR Stage 2 CNC Cylinder Heads - 2005-2008 Mustang GT
3) C&L Performance Three-Valve Intake Manifold Upgrade | Muscle Mustang & Fast Fords Magazine Article at Automotive.com
whatever dickhead I asked for numbers and you provided them, so for that thanks.
question then; and I'm not on either side of the CAI/no CAI fence, just asking. Why will a CAI without a tune throw a lean code ?
In a nut shell. The MAF Sensor sends a voltage signal to the EEC. The EEC also monitors the 02 Sensors in the exhaust( same idea ) and is where the calculations take place for the A/F ratio. When changing the MAF tube size, this causes a different voltage to be sent to the EEC which causes a different A/F ratio to be used and the EEC is told it's lean by the reading from the 02 sensor. The EEC gets confused because the A/F ratio it is calculating causing a lean issue and then it throws the code because it is detecting that something is wrong. One of the things a tune does is update the MAF table used by the EEC.
thank you, so are you saying (I think) that in reality, even though the EEC 'thinks' it's in a lean condition (which is where my question about CAIs come in) it isn't really ? So most all us layman who deduce that if; you get a CEL from a lean condition by adding a CAI, then the claims of incresed hp MUST be true since a tune will richen up the A/F mixture, thereby creating more power, not just from the tune, but also because of the incresed airflow from the CAI ? I've read lots of info about CAI vs stock airbox. I've seen the numbers, they're very similar. If what I'm understanding you're saying is there isn't a real lean code, the EEC just thinks there is, right ?
The engine is running lean, it is not imagined. The MAF Table is wrong without a tune.
From a performance stand point, generally what works well is to run as lean as the engine allows( just before detonation ) will make the most power. You run it richer to keep it from detonating.
CAI without a tune, tricks the EEC and causes the engine to run leaner. Some to the point that a code is thrown. People attribute the power gain actually caused by the leaner mixture to the greater airflow.
A lot of Dyno sheets showing gains of CAI's never show the A/F ratio of the runs. That is the very reason why...
The tune changes the MAF table to a leaner mixture. This works because the EEC is changed to read the sensors differently.
Tricking the EEC works to a degree. I don't like it because it can lead to random issues that are hard to diagnose and may lead to parts being unnecessarily replaced. IE, replacing the 02 sensors because the car occasionally throws a lean code.
Just something to add.
I have both tunes (Stock and JLT) on my car as well and can tell you the JLT is the stronger of the two in the old SOTP meter, but I don't have track numbers to back it. Another point of fact to add is that the JLT consistently offered lower IAT's, usually by as much as 30 degrees. Lower IAT's create a more dense charge. Cold air is better than hot air regardless of CFM capabilities.
If you still have doubts about it, I would recommend calling a professional and getting their opinion as well (JDM, Bama, Bren, BBR etc). Just because one douche bag had less than optimal results with his particular setup at the track doesn't make it universally true
Lol of course one of the "professionals" would tell you it adds power, they've got to make a buck!
true, but it's either their opinion or some stranger over the net
When I ordered my tunes I already had a couple different CAI setup ups along with the stock one. The guys at Bamachips told me that they would be able to get anywhere from 10-15 extra HP out of the JLT setup over the stocker and the S&B. These guys make a living testing numerous setups, so yes in my case I'll take the "Professionals" opinion.
Nobody has mentioned the sucking factor. On my K&N setup on my vipertruck it gives a major Darth Vador sucking sound which I love and IMO has value. Do the CAI's for the stangs do the same thing?
the JLT CAI/filter is huge and VERY loud. Every time your step on the gas or turn off your engine you can hear it doing it's thing