Let's discuss widebands and datalogging options

Discussion in '1994 - 1995 Specific Tech' started by Killercanary, Jun 13, 2007.


  1. Killercanary

    Killercanary The car that set the bar. Founding Member

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    I'm in the market right now for a wideband setup for my car so that I can do my own tuning via my EEC Tuner. I've been reading up on them for the last two days and my head is spinning. From what I've heard and gathered I need at a minimum a wideband O2 setup with RPM capability and a way to datalog this information. I was going to get the AEM wideband because down the road I'm planning to run their stand alone, but they do not offer a solution for the RPM input or datalogging with their stand alone gauge. I have read up on the F.A.S.T., PLX, Autometer, and Innovate setups. I like the gauge style setups better than the other options for ease of mounting. It seems that the Innovate setup is the nicest for datalogging and they offer WB's with RPM inputs.

    A local guy told me that the AEM WB setup can be used with the Innovate SSI-4 as the SSI-4 will take the 0-5volt output of the AEM gauge as well as an RPM input. These features along with the log works software that comes with the SSI-4 will allow me to datalog my AF versus RPM so that I can accurately tune it. I thought that just by having the gauge and a friend ride in the car that I could get by without a way to plot AF versus RPM for tuning, but after talking to a guy that has the AEM he said that the gauge is a little delayed in terms of what it shows on the gauge and what its actually doing at that RPM. He said that the values I would see on the gauge actually happened a few hundred RPM before they appear on the gauge, but by datalogging it with software it would be accurate. This would make it very difficult to tune without a way to datalog it.

    The SSI-4 looks appealing, but the directions look a little overwhelming to me in terms of hooking up other inputs such as injector duty cycle and even the RPM input for the box.

    Innovate also makes the XD-16+ which is similar to what I'll have with the AEM/Innovate combo, but it will cost less to get the AEM/Innovate combo by about $100 I think. Plus I like the AEM gauge better.

    Does anyone have any input on this? I want to get one ASAP.
    #1
  2. Don 95Vert

    Don 95Vert Founding Member

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    Hey Paul, I either have owned or have used just about all the cheapy widebands out there. Cheapy means less expensive than a $4,000 Horiba or $1,600 AFM-1000. But we use almost exclusively the Zeitronix units. In fact after we had a couple, we became a dealer for them. I like them for many reasons, the first being accuracy - we compare them to the more expensive variety just about whenever we tune or are training dealers and they are usually right on. Some of the others are not so accurate. You do not have to do free air calibrations with them - that is required on most others and can be a pain - these have an internal calibration routine. They are perfect for EEC IV cars because of the inherent datalogging features they include. They'll naturally do A/F ratio, but they'll also report Lambda (very important if you ever use alcohol blends), RPM with a one wire hookup and no extra expense adapters, TPS percentage and MAF voltage as a "0-5v User Input". It'll also do boost with their optional boost sensor and EGTs with their optional EGT sensor. I also LOVE their software, it's blazingly fast and very simple to use. It also saves the data on a graph that is very legible and makes reviewing the data very easy - you can look point by point at the A/F ratio and see at the same exact points on the MAF curve what boost/RPM and A/F were doing. Some of the wideband software I have seen makes you 'play' the data again and you have a tough time stopping it at the exact points you want.

    They also have linear analog output for connecting to things like AEMs and XCals and Dynos as well as narrowband simulation.

    We always take one with us when we are training dealers, not to sell them, but because they are such great training aids. So far every dealer we have trained has loved them so much, they have gotten one or more.

    The two downsides as I see it are: a)You need a laptop with a serial port or lacking that, you need a USB>Serial converter and b)Their LED gauge isn't so great compared to others - it's rectangular and shows several things at one. On our Mustang we mounted it on top of the steering column and on my Lightning, it's on the dash. They are coming out with a round gauge soon, but I have no idea when. But you can save $$ and order it without any display and just use a laptop for tuning.

    Our website has details on it if you need them or email me.

    That's my opinion on them...

    Don
    #2
  3. Killercanary

    Killercanary The car that set the bar. Founding Member

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    Damn Don. I wasn't getting any answers so I went and just ordered the AEM WB and Innovate SS4-I interface. It was a hasty decision but I need to know where I'm at AF wise now that I can start making some WOT pulls. I don't want to hurt my new setup, but at the same time I can't wait any longer to see what it will do now. Thanks for the reply though, that setup you mentioned looks great.
    #3
  4. turbogt

    turbogt Member

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    Paul, I am in the exact situation you are.. I need a wideband now, and I WILL be getting an AEM Standalone in the near future..I like the aem that has a gauge, but it doesn't hook directly into the aem computer like the much more expensive aem uego that doesnt' even have a gauge.. What to do, what to do???
    #4
  5. m0l0

    m0l0 Member

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    I liked more Innovate LC-1 , just because the price.

    But i run now with the "problem" that i didnt bought the gauge, and i would like to know the afr all the time, and the innovate gauge is really expensive ( the serial one )

    Other than that the LC-1 is a nice WB setup.
    #5
  6. Dan95-5.0

    Dan95-5.0 Active Member

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    heres the solution to your problem and mine


    http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77263.0
    #6
  7. m0l0

    m0l0 Member

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  8. Chris_Red_V8

    Chris_Red_V8 New Member

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    another vote for the zeitronix setup. Great tool, easy install. I have my Maf set as the user input, and its extremely accurate.
    #8
  9. 95mustang_gt

    95mustang_gt New Member

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  10. m0l0

    m0l0 Member

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  11. Killercanary

    Killercanary The car that set the bar. Founding Member

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    I've been using the AEM wideband now for a few weeks and I love it. I also bought an AEM stand alone and the two work great with each other. I have the AEM wideband's 0-5v output connected to a stock O2 plug that we cut from an old O2 sensor and I have it connected to the #1 O2 (which is the passenger side). I have the actually wideband sensor on the driver's side though as its typically the leaner of the two banks due to the runner design of the #5 and #8 intake ports.
    #11
  12. gcomfx.com

    gcomfx.com Founding Member

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    Another vote for the Zeitronix.

    I mounted mine in the CD delete tray.

    [​IMG] Sorry for the crappy picture.
    #12
  13. mackey

    mackey Active Member

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    How about the PLX M-300? Anyone have any experiences with that? I like the fact it has both a 0-1v and 0-5V outputs so you do not have to weld a seperate bung on. That is why I've been looking at it.
    #13
  14. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

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    I have no experience with it but have seen several self tuners
    on various sites use it :)

    I have seen many say ... for the most part ...............

    Its best to keep your original system of two O2's in place
    and
    Do a bung for your tuning equipment
    thus
    Both systems are separate and independent of each other

    Thats how I've done it since about 2002 and I've had no probs

    Grady
    #14
  15. zenboy99

    zenboy99 Founding Member

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    I have one, its worked fine as far as I can tell. I had a slight problem that caused the wire to lay up against the header and melted it within 10 seconds. PLX has been a pain to deal with in getting the right replacement wire. The new wire they gave me comes with a hard outer plastic coating that probably protects it better, but its the wrong wire.

    Just based on their customer service, I'm going with a different wideband.
    #15
  16. samseed101

    samseed101 New Member

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    I have the PLX SM-AFR. It was $214 shipped but doesn't come with a gauge. Then again, I don't need one since I only really monitor it when tuning or datalogging.

    I replaced one of my stock narrowband sensors with this setup. It works beautifully and if done correctly, the narrowband emulation is great.
    #16
  17. kbeefy

    kbeefy New Member

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    #17
  18. m0l0

    m0l0 Member

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    It was kind of free that article when I posted it, They disturbed the waters of the Wideband Makers, it all over the net that they didn’t make the Test using real Lab Methodologies and it was biased towards Innovate Products yada yada, well so far the whole article can be seen on this picture :

    [​IMG]
    #18
  19. Don 95Vert

    Don 95Vert Founding Member

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    Innovate sponsors that site and all tests were run through on Innovate box - here is what Zbigniew, President of Zeitronix has to say about it:

    "Regarding the recent Fordmuscle wideband shootout.
    We have spoken to Mr. Mike Kojima, the author of the Fordmuscle shootout and got first hand test details.

    The tests were done using Innovate methodology and Innovate equipment.

    There were several major flaws in the test, including but not limited to the way the O2 sensor was exposed to the test gases.

    One of the major test flaws was reading the AFR value from the Zeitronix Zt-2 analog output using the Innovate logger. There is always a voltage drop on the power-ground wire caring 12W of O2 sensor heater power and offsetting the AFR value. Reading the AFR value from the Innovate digital output but logging a raw Zt-2 voltage using Innovate logger exposed the Zt-2 AFR reading to the voltage drop, noise and Innovate logger analog to digital conversion offsets and conversion time. The Zeitronix ZDL datalogging software should have been used to read the AFR value from the digital output of the Zt-2; not any other product brand. Using the Innovate analog logger gave Innovate LC-1 unit, a half track length advantage in this 1/4 mile race. We either start from the same line or this test is not valid at all. This is an absolute violation and unscrupulous action.

    The same goes for the "latency" measurement. The Zt-2 AFR readings were obtained by using the Innovate logger and software.

    The Zeitronix ZDL software was not used in the test but scored the lowest.

    Moreover, the Zt-2 scored the lowest in "ease of use" category. You know first hand how easy is to get the AFR value from the Zt-2. It takes two wires to be connected to +12V and ground plus the O2 sensor placed in the exhaust stream to read the AFR. The Zeitronix LCD display plugs and powers up directly from the Zt-2.

    As you suspect, Fordmuscle is sponsored by Innovate."

    As to them saying the Zeitronix software is the most difficult to use, that's laughable - because to start logging, you hit enter. To pause, hit space, to stop, hit enter aganin. That's realllly difficult. We have used all the major widebands out there and actually have a PLX 550 in our Mustang (we hate it). We also compare a number of them regularly, in a car in real world conditions with lab grade widebands and have found the Zeitronix to be spot-on.
    #19
  20. kbeefy

    kbeefy New Member

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    I was torn betweena Zeit and an Innovative, the results of that comparison pretty much seal it, I'm goin with a Zeit. 'Paid Advertisements' like that should just have the Vendors name across the top so you know it's an ad and not a subjective comparison. I do like the Innovative 'G2' gauge though... http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/g2_gauge.php
    It very closely matches the Autometer pro-comps I have allready.

    Anyone know if there will be a problem using that gauge for in cab monitoring on the Zeit ZT-2? I'd still use a laptop for tuning and dattalogging.
    #20

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