Please! Need Help With My 306 setup 500+ H.P

[PewterLS1]

Hey…thanks for reading my post…hopefully someone that knows more than I can help. This motor is in my 86 hatch and was raced for about 6 months before I put it away after getting aggravated and ran out of time to play with my toys.

My father and I built this car and motor over three years of weekends on our backs in the driveway and then just ran out of time and money to play anymore after we kicked some ass on the street!! I miss driving this car and need to get it running right so we can have some time together in it again.

This is the motor and all the specs I have from the receipts from when we built it.

800 CFM Holly Double Pumper Carb
Edelbrock Victor Jr Manifold
Canfield Power Adder Heads, CNC Port Matched 2.08/1.60 and I think the 54cc chambers because I wanted high compression, I think it had 11.7 to 1.
6.550 Trick Flo chromoly push rods
306 Rotating assembly, balanced (306-FT-REG)
5.0 main support system
SLP high volume oil pump
1 ¾” BBK long tubes
Edelbrock timing gear set
MSD 6a distributor, controller box, and coil
Harland sharp roller rockers
Crane Energizer hyd lifters
ARP 7/16 head bolts

Cam Card:
Comp Cams 35-522-8
Grind # FW XE282HR-12 Intake Exhaust
Gross Valve Lift .56 .574
Duration at .006 tappet lift 282 290
Open Close
Valve Timing INT 29 btdc 73 abdc
EXH 77 bbdc 33 atdc
Cam is installed at 108 intake centerline, I degreed it after it wasn’t running right.

INT EXH
Duration at .050 232 240
Lobe Lift .3540 .3600
Lobe Seperation 112


This motor was finished and installed in late 01 before my dad had back problems. This is the same motor DSS ran for 540 horse on the engine dyno and when I ordered it that’s what I asked for.

I thought my running problems were due to the fact that I didnt degree the cam when I put it in so I pulled the motor and degreed it to 108 per the cam card in winter 02. After I put the engine back in I had the same problems listed below and havent really driven it more than 100 miles a year since.

Its running rich, I know the carb is probably too big because it runs rich as a pig, I told my father to order a 650 and somehow he got a 800. The Harland sharps are the loudest rollers I have ever had and need something else, I set them to 0 lash + ¼ turn and that didn’t change anything so I need a recommendation on carb and rockers.

I am getting float at 6000 rpm, is that from the manifold or the lifters collapsing? I know it could be the springs but I don’t know what is on there, they came from DSS that way and I can’t seem to find any specs in the paperwork.

I want to go to a roller tip solid for revs, is that ok with a hyd roller cam to get say…7K out of the motor and should I stay with the same cam?

Is this setup ok for a 150 shot, I don’t want to change over to low comp and use a blower or turbo.

Thanks for your help in advance, I really want to get this up and running right so the old man and I can have some fun when the snow melts (Boston) here.

Once its running right Im attacking the body and paint next...it needs a cage too

Here are some pics....click them

 

[PewterLS1]

BTW car is running a Currie 9" with a locker, alum driveshaft, stock T-5 and 4.10's. It has the headers I listed, off road shorty H pipe and 2 chamber flows and a Ford Motorsport HD Clutch. I have Mickey thompson tires on centerline rims 10" or 11" I forget and stock rims on the front. The car will lift the front tires on a 4K dump and pulls like crazy to 6K when it goes flat.

Any help would be awesome, dont be affraid to list some options....this car is our bonding machine...lol..it needs to be running right and never loose!!! J/K it can loose to another Ford...my Camaro needs lots of work to even be in the same class as this beast!

Im sick of people behind me choking on my fumes.....Thanks Guys!

BTW: I used taller springs in the back to clear the tires...I would like to mini tub if i can get it running right!!!

 

[89white50]

Firt off, mi guessing your valve float is from the springs. That cam requires some pretty agressive springs because of the high ramp. I woulds say that 800 cfm holley is WAY too big, i have only seen carbs that large on 454 and higher big blocks. So there would be a start on ur running rich as hell problem. Also,

stock T-5

with that motor and a 150 shot. yikes.

 

[PewterLS1]

Firt off, mi guessing your valve float is from the springs. That cam requires some pretty agressive springs because of the high ramp. I woulds say that 800 cfm holley is WAY too big, i have only seen carbs that large on 454 and higher big blocks. So there would be a start on ur running rich as hell problem. Also,


Stock T-5 with that motor and a 150 shot. yikes.

Hehehehe I wanted to see what the stock T-5 will take for a beating then Im going auto & stall. I launched at 4500 and waited for the bang after I broke in the motor and clutch and nothing...it doesnt even whine. This was a stock car I got from Texas in late 98 with 45K to be stripped an built built, I wanted the T's to be unique even though I know it needs a cage!

BTW: It does have factory 5 racing upper and lowers in the rear, full length sub frame connectors and a 1/2" steel plate welded to the unibody because I ripped off the factory upper control arm mounts on a street race launch.

Any spring suggestions????

 

[90mustangGT]

Stock 302W block.... T-5.... two time bombs in a row, which is going to blow first.

I am not sure what to say that combo will make all motor, maby 340-360RWHP if everything is runnign right, maby. A 150 shot will put your torque over 500ft/lbs but not the horse, not quite.

I also agree, it's probally the valve spring issue, big, ported heads should not fall off that low on a 3" stroke combo.

 

[PewterLS1]

Stock 302W block.... T-5.... two time bombs in a row, which is going to blow first.

I am not sure what to say that combo will make all motor, maby 340-360RWHP if everything is runnign right, maby. A 150 shot will put your torque over 500ft/lbs but not the horse, not quite.

I also agree, it's probally the valve spring issue, big, ported heads should not fall off that low on a 3" stroke combo.

The block was race prepped (Bored, magnafluxed, oil passages bored, deck plane, etc) but yes it is a stock 302W roller block with the DSS main stud girdle system.

 

[90mustangGT]

The block was race prepped (Bored, magnafluxed, oil passages bored, deck plane, etc) but yes it is a stock 302W roller block with the DSS main stud girdle system.

Well, at least it will hold it all togeather when it does break. Most 302W's split right up the middle. Having the block machined right and the assembly balanced does help, and no doubt a stud girtle does give some stability but it won't do what DSS claims. High RPM puts a lot of stress on a block as well.

I was building a 347. I plan on some big heads, solid cam, intake, carb, ect, all big. I was aiming for at least 400rwhp. I was doing the Scat 9000 stroker assembly, balanced, SFI balancer, alumimum sfi flywheel, align honed, ARP hardware, ect. I was also planning on doing a DSS main support because it is good for dampening harmonics and holds the mains and keeps the things stable. Hard-bloc was also planned to the water jackets. After all this was considered, and knowing that the whole setup would still be quite limited and would probally eventually crack, I made a big step forward to a Dart block.

If you already have the engine built, roll with it and if/when it does break, consider other options. I know a guy that ran a stock blocked 306 with stock rotating assembly and Speed-pro pistons and ARP hardware, made over 500hp and near 600tq with a S-trim at 12psi. He only did this for a short period of time before he went with a different combo.

 

[PewterLS1]

I am waiting for DSS to respond to my email...good luck to me.

NOBODY has the same combo as this!!!!! I need a suggestion on carb, jets and valve springs!!!

Please if you have any input let me know!!!!

Thanks

 

[bluevenom867]

Well,the cam close to what we were runing for a hyd. roller.What lifters are they?

Your probably gonna need springs (double spring) with 130-145lbs on the the seat.

And dont worry about the noise rockers,try switching to a thicker oil and see if that doesnt quitet things up.If it does then its a lifter problem...but dont go and buy another set yet!Because sometimes,one or two lifters just bleed down faster than the others and will "tap".

Carb,yes its a little bit big,but even still you should be able to get it to ideal right.Reset the ideal mixture screws and see if they werent out of whack.

 

[PewterLS1]

Well,the cam close to what we were runing for a hyd. roller.What lifters are they?

Your probably gonna need springs (double spring) with 130-145lbs on the the seat.

And dont worry about the noise rockers,try switching to a thicker oil and see if that doesnt quitet things up.If it does then its a lifter problem...but dont go and buy another set yet!Because sometimes,one or two lifters just bleed down faster than the others and will "tap".

Carb,yes its a little bit big,but even still you should be able to get it to ideal right.Reset the ideal mixture screws and see if they werent out of whack.

They were crane energizer lifters. The rockers are Harland Sharp's newer design in 2000 and they eliminated the oil hole at the tope because it was allowing oil to leak by th eat of the valve causing buring oil (so I was told) but they did say if I drilled them they would quiet down but burn oil.

The carb idles great RPM wise, I did adjust my mixture to the point of stalling and it still seems rich, and you can smell it bad.

What size primary and secondary jets should I be using? I did buy the kit from holley with the different jets in it and played around for a while with my pimary and secondary jets. I stepped it down till it stumbled on light accel then I adjusted the screw so that it threw in a healthy shot of gas in the primary's when i got on it lightly but it still stinks of gas and it actually smokes because its so rich.

What valve springs should I order???? Any suggestions?? What jet size on the carb???

Watch this quick vid...you can see the smoke....lol

http://media.putfile.com/86-Mustang-Quick-Launches

 

[304billet]

That Comp cam is an awesome cam as well as ur Canfield ported heads.

when u run too rich u will wash out the rings, glazing the cylinder walls and prevent the rings from seating correctly. U need to dial in the correct carb for ur engine, it is too big.

with ur comp and that combo u should not have a problem with 400/400 @ the RW, NA. but the limit of a stock 302 roller block is 500rwhp.

I have had both Crane Gold pedestal mount RR and 7/16" stud mount with Pro Magnum roller rockers w/ polylocs, both adjusted by a ASCE certified mechanic and hardcore drag racer. Both sounded like sewing machines in my 347 stroker and R304 and is normal in some engines.

 

[bluevenom867]

They were crane energizer lifters. The rockers are Harland Sharp's newer design in 2000 and they eliminated the oil hole at the tope because it was allowing oil to leak by th eat of the valve causing buring oil (so I was told) but they did say if I drilled them they would quiet down but burn oil.

The carb idles great RPM wise, I did adjust my mixture to the point of stalling and it still seems rich, and you can smell it bad.

What size primary and secondary jets should I be using? I did buy the kit from holley with the different jets in it and played around for a while with my pimary and secondary jets. I stepped it down till it stumbled on light accel then I adjusted the screw so that it threw in a healthy shot of gas in the primary's when i got on it lightly but it still stinks of gas and it actually smokes because its so rich.

What valve springs should I order???? Any suggestions?? What jet size on the carb???

Watch this quick vid...you can see the smoke....lol

http://media.putfile.com/86-Mustang-Quick-Launches

What power valve?Make sure the power valve has a lower vacuum opening than the motor has at ideal.

If you got the mains jets right,the ideal mixtures screws set right,and the float level and fuel pressure right.Then you'll have to take it to a carb shop and have them mess around with the emulsion jets and air bleeds.

Oh,and valve spring what ever you can get the best price on.Look for some double springs with 130-145lbs on the seat,but your heads might have something simalr so it might not be the problem.

 

[PewterLS1]

Talked to DSS!!! Awesome that they emailed me back and I got to talk to the salesman that sold me all the stuff back in 2000!

Ok cam has too steep of a ramp to get more than 6100 with my springs and even with the 140 seat pressure they only see 6400 because its a street cam. Ok sounds good to me now i know the cam is preventing the revs I want.

I was off on my numbers big time...they ran that motor combo on a engine dyno with a 750 double pumper and got 404 hp. That seems low to me and I will get numbers after I get it dialed in.

The suggested carb on here and from him was a 650 double pumper for the street, that sounds good to me...time to go shopping!

Thank You all for your help, the warm weather is coming plus I think im moving to Texas so I should be working on the animal soon!

I might revive this post when I get the engine dyno tuned!!!!!!

Thanks Again,
Mike In Mass.

 

[MrKwik]

Totally off the subject....

I watced the video and see that you have one of the 82ish style scoops. I have the same intake as you and I dave discovered that even without the 1" spacer installed, it wont clear a flat hood. I'm running one of those 13" ford motor sport air cleaners that is only like 2" high. I was just curious what kind of air cleaner you are running and did you cut a hule under that scoop for clearance or what?

 

[PewterLS1]

Totally off the subject....

I watced the video and see that you have one of the 82ish style scoops. I have the same intake as you and I dave discovered that even without the 1" spacer installed, it wont clear a flat hood. I'm running one of those 13" ford motor sport air cleaners that is only like 2" high. I was just curious what kind of air cleaner you are running and did you cut a hule under that scoop for clearance or what?

4" K&N Filter, and yes the hood is functional and cut round. The filter fits right up into the scoop and is almost flush with the underside of the scoop.

I wanted a tall cleaner and a scoop so it worked out well. When I get the bodywork done it will all be one color with a few graphics probably.

And yes I have a 1" carb spacer as well so that works out well.

 

[FORCED2DV8]

Carb way to big.. get a 650 Demon with mechanical secondaries, my preference, and upgrade your springs. Make sure your valve train is setup properly,check pushrods, and look to see where the rocker tip is sitting in the open position, should be centered on the valve. Then tune in your carb and timing.

 

[MrKwik]

4" K&N Filter, and yes the hood is functional and cut round. The filter fits right up into the scoop and is almost flush with the underside of the scoop.

I wanted a tall cleaner and a scoop so it worked out well. When I get the bodywork done it will all be one color with a few graphics probably.

And yes I have a 1" carb spacer as well so that works out well.

Awsome, thats what I needed to know. I have been looking at one of those scoops as a stealthier option than a cowl hood. I am swapping 86 body panels onto my 92 and I wasnt it to appear stockish. Don't have any pics of your intake/air cleaner setup and or the underside of your hood do you? I would like to see that.

 

[PewterLS1]

Nothing right now. I will be working on it this coming week so I will take some pics then.

PM me if I forget!!!

 

[aleborjas]

hi my opinion is your carb is way big go with 650 speed demon, the heads are little big the can is ok but you need better springs, the rims are toooo wide for that car and the tires are too i saw the video and the car has no torque run 26x10 tires and 8'' rims

 

[PewterLS1]

hi my opinion is your carb is way big go with 650 speed demon, the heads are little big the can is ok but you need better springs, the rims are toooo wide for that car and the tires are too i saw the video and the car has no torque run 26x10 tires and 8'' rims

Haha no torque...the tires were spinning the first time by and it still hit the shock towers up front. The second time by I was only 3/4 throttle so I didnt spin them and got it to hook to 4k then I got out of it!

The car on the street with those tires and the gears usually pulls the fronts on for a good 10 feet out. The only reason I have such a tall tire is because of my gearing, without them 1st is useless and second goes by in about 2 seconda max!!

Getting the new carb next week, Ill let you know the results after I hit the dyno and gave it tuned! Waiting on the springs because after talking to DSS this cam is only good for 6400 with good springs...i get 6K now so I will prob go a different route with the cam and lifters, depends on what the dyno says.

Thanks for everyones help!