I need advise about priming the oil pump and engine. I just completely rebuilt a '69 351 windsor engine that will be going into my 67 Cougar XR7. The engine is still on the engine stand and I just finished putting it together. I wanted to prime the oil pump and engine before putting in the distributor. The concern I have is that as I was turning the oil pump with a socket on the end of a drill, no matter how long I turned the oil pump, oil will not come up through the push rods & rocker arms. I primed it for 10 minutes straight and oil still won't come up through the rocker arms. I know for a fact that the oil pump works because i had a brain fart and forgot to screw the oil pressure sending unit into the side of the block and when i turned the oil pump I shot about 2 quarts of oil out the side of the block. So I know the pump works. And yes, I'm turning the oil pump the correct direction; counter clockwise. My question is this....is this something to be concerned about? Will oil finally come up through the rocker arms once the engine is running and the lifters and rocker arms are in motion? I don't want to start the engine if it's not going to squirt oil up through the rocker arms and oil the valve train. I don't want to ruin my engine. Thanks for the advise....
i would squirt some oil through the spark plug holes to prime the cylinders. then turn the engine over with the spark plugs out to build up oil pressure. then put them back in and start it.
Let me try to understand this....are you saying that by turning over the engine, which will move the lifters and the rest of the valve train, that will make oil come up through the pushrods and the rocker arms??? I thought I remember priming the oil pump on past engine builds and oil would come up through the rocker arms, which is why I'm concerned I can't get it to do the same thing with this engine....If turning the engine over will make oil come up through the rocker arms, why won't it do the same thing by just turning the oil pump? That makes no sense to me. Can you explain and clarify this for me? Thanks...
Oil pump primers are cheap, don't risk getting a socket stuck in your engine. There's also the possibility that the socket isn't completely engaging the oil pump shaft. You may be experiencing cavitation and need to pack the pump with white lithium grease, so it builds pressure initially and will draw oil up the pickup tube. It's not very common, but it has been know to happen on occasion.
the pump is drawing oil up through the pickup tube. Like i mentioned earlier, I forgot to put the oil pump sending unit in the side of the block and shot oil out the hole. So I know the pump is pumping oil. But why won't it pump it up through the rocker arms? Do the lifters have anything to do with pumping oil up the pushrod and through the rocker arms as they move up and down when the engine is running?
Do not try and rotate the crank to make oil come up. If you completely went thru the engine, then I take it, it's got a new flat tappet cam and lifters ? With assembly lube on the lobes ? You don't want to disturb that untill you fire the engine up and break in the cam. Keep trying with the drill. It takes a while to get the oil up to the rockers. Several minutes in some cases using a drill.
when i build an engine, i load up all the bearing surfaces with assembly lube, as well as the cylinder walls, and any other place that has two metal parts rubbing together. i then take the new oil pump, bolt it in place, and remove the cover and the inner rotor and pack the pump with vaseline and replace the inner rotor, and button up the pump. i then fill the oil filter before i install it. what this does is prime the oil system so that i get pressure straight away, and the vaseline liquefies and when i change the oil after the cam break in, it is removed from the engine. since you have oil being pumped out the sending unit opening, you have already primed the oil pump. the reason it wont pump up through the rocker arms is because you have to get the oil through the bearing, including the cam bearings, and then pump up the lifters to open the little valves in the lifters ot pump the oil to the top of the engine. you just cant do that with a speed handle or even a drill. the system is primed however, so install the distributor, button the engine up, and install it in the car and break in the cam.
Thanks for that advise. You have given me a little more peace of mind that everything's ok... When I put the engine together, I used assembly lube on all the bearings and the cam and I covered the cylinder walls with motor oil. So everything is lubed. The cam is a roller cam from Anderson Ford Motorsport and I have used this cam in a previous engine so I know it's broke in, along with the tie bar roller lifters. So breaking in the cam isn't an issue..... Ok so I'll install the engine and fire it up and pray that I don't ruin anything. It'll be a couple weeks before I get the engine in as I'm finishing up some body work first, but hopefully that will be done tomorrow. I pulled the cowl panel off and repaired the cowl vents. Wow, what a job that was. I still have to prime and paint the spot welds and put the windshield back in, bolt on the fenders, install the engine and the interior. Thanks again for the help...
Are you saying you didnt even see one drop of oil coming through the pushrods? Is oil coming out around the lifters? If youre getting enough oil pressure (you didnt say how much youre actually getting) I would be worried if I didnt see oil coming up through at least most of the pushrods. Its not uncommon to have a pushrod be plugged, especially if theyre used, but all 16 would be quite unusual. A good 1/2" drill should be able to turn the pump at least 450rpm, which is 900 engine rpm. Thats sort of a high idle, so if I didnt see oil at that speed, assuming good pressure, I would do some more digging to find out why. But thats just me.
No oil whatsoever is coming through any of the rocker arms. Not one of them, which is why I'm on here asking for advise. This makes no sense. The pushrods are clear, as I had all the parts soaked at a machine shop and as I was installing them I looked through the pushrod to make sure they were clear after I blew them out with an air hose. I don't know if there is oil coming out of the lifters because I have the engine buttoned up (intake is on the engine). As far as oil pressure...since the engine is still on the engine stand I don't know what the pressure is, but I can tell you that when I forgot to put the oil pressure sending unit in the side of the block and primed the oil pump, I shot about 2 quarts of oil about 10 feet out the side of the block. So I know it's getting pretty good oil pressure and the oil pump is primed. See my confusion???...Ur thoughts???
Since you've got a roller cam, go ahead and spin the engine (without the spark plugs though) and see if you get oil up to the rockers. Roller cam's need no break in time. They're ready to go from the start. I've always been able to get oil to the rockers with a drill. It just takes awhile for it to get there.
we spun the oil pump on a small block chevy with a drill, and never saw any oil to the rocker arms, and yet that engine has no issues with lubrication. a drill just doesnt have enough torque to properly spin the oil pump. it will get oil to the filter, and into the bottom end, but not any further than that in reality.
Hmmmm.........I always got oil traveling up the pushrods and to the rockers when I primed with a drill. Do you have a mechanical oil pressure gauge of some sort, I would hook up the sending unit or a mechanical gauge and see if oil pressure is registering at all? If the pump is working properly and after several minutes of priming no result, I would be curious as to whether your bearings are clearanced properly.
The block I had the cam and lifters in before was a 69. I had a fire 3 years ago and, long story short, had to get rid of the block due to rust in the cylinders after sitting for 3 years. Rust was too deep to bore without sleeving the block. So I started over with a '74 block. The cam and lifters worked fine in my 69 block as they were ordered specifically for the older block. I assume the 74 block would be no different from the 69 as far as oil hole lining up and so on. The lifters are tie bar lifters and the cam is a roller cam from Anderson Ford Motorsport. The only gauge I have is the one that's in the car so I won't be able to find out what the oil pressure is until I put it in the car. But I'd like to get this figured out before I do that if I can. I think I might try the drill again for a bit and see what happens. I'll turn the crank also. If no luck, then I might pull off the intake and see if there's oil getting up through the lifters. I adjusted the rocker arms and I felt alot of resistance when I did, so I assume the lifters are pumped up, at least they felt like they are. The crank and bearings are new (well, I should say reground) and the crank was turned .010 and the bearings are .010 over, which I made sure they were correct, as I had problems with getting the wrong bearings on a prior engine build on another car.
I respectfully disagree. I saw TONS of oil in my top end with a factory pump, using just a 14.4V drill in reverse. Something's not right, whether the socket isn't fully engaging the oil pump driveshaft, the pump is bad, or there's cavitation. An air bubble likely isn't allowing enough oil to be pumped up to the top half of the engine. The only cure for that is hoping it clears itself when you start the engine for the first time, or packing the pump with grease, so it builds pressure immediately. Being on a stand would make the decision easy, but since it's in the car I'd pour a ton of oil over the rockers, fire it up, and keep an eye on the oil pressure gauge. Any more than a few seconds with no oil pressure and I'd shut it down. I'd still order that priming shaft though.
The engine is still on the stand, not in the car.... Ok, I took you're guy's advice and turned the cam at the same time I turned the oil pump and still no oil through the rocker arms. I then checked for the oil plugs at the back of the block. There were 3 screw-in plugs. I pulled each out one at a time and bumped the oil pump with the drill and there's definitely oil coming up through each hole. So I then pulled off the timing cover and found something odd. You guys mentioned there were also 3 oil plugs in the front also, but I only found one. It was a screw in plug, but the other two holes didn't have a plug in them. My confusion is that neither one of these two hole were threaded. Are they supposed to be threaded or are they press in like the freeze plugs are? I took pictures of it so you guys could help me figure this out. Now I need to figure out how to upload them on here....
Ok so if those other two holes are press in caps, then I'll run down to the auto parts store and get a couple and press them in. Once I get them in and the timing cover back on, I'll let you know what happens. I guess this was a blessing in disguise. Thank all of you for all your advise.
Just my thoughts, but packing the pump with vaseline may be why you're not seeing oil up to the pushrods with a drill. I never pack the pump when I build an engine. Oil only. I did use moly assemgly grease (lube?) once long ago on a 390 build. Things went south when the rear cam plug popped out (something was amiss with that particular block) and when we tore it down (it had about 3 hours run time on it) there was still moly lube in the journal holes in the crank. I've never used anything (since then) but oil and/or STP oil treatment to assemble an engine. (cam lobes and lifter bottoms excepted and on these only a thin film of moly grease to protect til the oil gets there) Even with the pump dry, soon as you spin it with a drill, it'll suck up the oil from the pan instantly, so there's no danger of runing the gears. The assembly lube coating the pump gears from the factory is sufficient to protect. The pump works so well & quickly in fact, that I've had one engine I primed without the filter in place amnit: (on the stand, late at night) that emptied the oil pan before I realized the filter wasn't in place. Big f--king mess that was. :Teh-Win:
