REAL motorhead question for all you thinkers and inventors

[Funanin]

ok i was laying in bed last night thinking of more ways to make power out of stock block (as usual), by changing something inside it to make it run differently, but more efficiently. Heres what I came up with:

What if you could custom grind a crank that would fire 2 pistons at the same time? They could fire next to each other in 4 sets of 2 or diagonal from each other in 4 sets of 2. Such as cylinder 1&2 then 5&6 then 3&4 then 7&8? Obviously you would have to custom grind a cam too that would open and close the valves on these cylinders at the same time, and u would have to create some kind of distributor that could fire two wires at once, but wouldnt this close to DOUBLE the power of the motor? Yes it would use twice as much spark and twice as much fuel and air, but with the technology of aftermarket parts today, i think it could be done. Tell me what u guys think.

 

[Michael Yount]

What you propose simply changes the firing order of the engine. While modest power changes can occur with firing order changes depending on the intake manifold being used, in general, things like a smooth and even firing interval and controlling heat generation in the motor have to be considered too. In general they try not to fire two cylinders side by side because it allows the cooling system to remove a bit of heat from that location before adding more nearby.

If you want to double the output, you need to double the amount of air flowing through the engine. You can do that by either 1) pumping more air in under pressure (turbo, super charger), 2) adding the extra air/oxygen chemically (nitrous, nitromethane), 3) increasing the displacment of the engine, 4) increasing the rpm, or 5) firing the cylinders twice as often at the same rpm (2 stroke vs. 4 stroke). And you can always increase airflow with the same displacement at the same rpm by making it easier for more air to flow into and out of the engine -- higher performing manifolds, heads, cams, etc.

 

[Dark Knight]

the engine wouldnt run as smooth... firing order is designed to keep the power output smooth.. you'd fire 2 cylinders, then have to wait for the next two.. vs a constant firing..

 

[Funanin]

Ok, so u are voting against the idea then i am guessing? Im sure u could beef up the cooling system so u could fire 2 cylinders at a time. The point was to not have to buy a much larger displacement motor (weight). But to use high performance heads/cam/intake to accomidate for the extra air/fuel needed by firing 2 cylinders at once.

 

[Funanin]

the engine wouldnt run as smooth... firing order is designed to keep the power output smooth.. you'd fire 2 cylinders, then have to wait for the next two.. vs a constant firing..

You could set it up like a 90* 4 cylinder motor that just fires 2 at once instead of 1. And it could run just as smooth because u would always have 2 going just as if a 4 cylinder always had 1 going. Yea it might be a little rougher because of the intensity of the firing, but think of the power output?

 

[5spd GT]

It would be costly and not very efficient...the price would outway any possible gain for the money...interesting proposition none the less...

 

[Boss 351]

I was going to chime in with installing the pistons the wrong way (notches to the back) so the offset will give you 5 or so more cubic inches and 30HP from what I've read.

But reinventing the wheel with a new internal combustion engine design or concept? I'd spend the effort into trying to figure out some sort of force field that could reduce the car's mass and ultimatly have the thing run in the low 7's at the 1/4 mile with only 50HP You know like how a warpdrive system works...

 

[autoXr1]

I believe the Dodge Viper 10cyl. engine has at least two cylinders that fire at the same time. I remember hearing that it is a major contributor to its unique sound. I think some of the more "exotic" 12 and 16 cyl. engines also have more than one piston firing simultaneously.

That said, I would have to agree with the others with regards to an 8 cyl. engine. There are engine harmonics and other internal forces that must be dealt with, that the stock block is likely not able to handle even if you were able to design/fabricate such a crank, cam, and ignition system.

IF you were to design something to test the limits of the stock block, it would be in the form of ultra-lite weight/high strength materials for the internals, precision balancing, and enhanced coolant/lubrication flow. There is already an existing valvetrain design which essentially eliminates the traditional head, cam, valve, distributor system and is capable of winding an otherwise stock 5.0 up over 10,000 RPM (don't know for how long though )
There was a link to the site on here a long time ago, it is interesting technology, and I have seen a version of it on a little Formula V racer at the track. A little difficult to describe but basically it looks like a quad-cam system, but the "cam", itself, has specially designed holes in it, and as it rotates will allow for gas and fuel to enter/exit the combustion chambers. This eliminates valves, springs, pushrods, and other small parts that put weight/load on the engine or could fail, float, bend, etc. The "cams" run off a belt that rotates with the crank, much like a DOHC engine. The name of the company/site/system escapes me right now.

Personally, if I had the money, I'd go with an all aluminum race block as a foundation for any major project requiring high power or high RPM.

 

[Funanin]

lol... cool

 

[wht93gtEd]

yeah I also heard that the Viper V10 fires 2 cylinders at once. Someone else called it a "unique" sound. I think the earlier ones sound like tractors at idle. IMO. Nice idea.......where's the prototype

 

[Funanin]

my 5.0 lawnmower

 

[autoXr1]

Found it. Interesting design.

http://www.coatesengine.com/photo_gallery.html

 

[Funanin]

AH HA! SO IT DOES EXIST AND IT DOES WORK! All you haters out there can just click the link and see for yourself!