Short block rebuild advice

[rideapony]

Hi all, very interesting and helpfull topics. I own a '90 GT which I upgraded myself with all the typical things like; five lug, 17's, cobra/Bullit brakes, 3.55's and all of that. My engine is a little tired and would like to rebuild one. I really like to do those things myself and know somewhat what to do.

I have in my plans a 5.0 HO from a '91 T-bird which seems to be in very decent shape with no visible over-abuse I just want to use the bottom end to put some decent components for good/really good power and long life. I'll use some other heads/int/exh components.

New short block is better but I'm trying to save some bucks in this project. I read an article saying that it is good to rebuild a block that has been working for a while because it has been primmed and has been running thru so many heat/cold cycles which is in the more stable conditions.

The advice I need is if it is OK to use the T-bird roller HO short block for the rebuild and if it is worth it, also any specific rebuilding kits to stay as 302,306 but no more than 331. thank you all for any suggestions. I want to do this because you all know the feeling of doing special projects like this by yourself with some help obviously.

Nick.

 

[mob]

Aslong as its a roller 302 it should be good. Cant gaurantee what kind of cam/heads are on it, etc, but the motor will be a good donor motor. If your just gonna rebuild it get a nice 306 kit and go for it, get a decent came like trick flow stage 1 for 150 bucks, a set of gt40p heads and a cobra intake, the car will be STRONG.

 

[rideapony]

Mob, thank you for the advice. I don't what that engine has at the top like I say I'll be using the bottom only. The other thing is I have a fairly new E303 cam on my engine now and was thinking just transfer it to the rebuild, but this cam has been giving me a lot of headaches with idle as it doesn't produce enough vacuum (I think that's the problem).

So I wil start doing my home work researching on a different one fixes that and also be street legal in Calif. As you can see I'm starter getting too picky (Good power, decent idle, longevity) I think I can still dealing with the E303 idle but I'm open to more cam suggestions.

If the question comes up about why I need a rebuild is because I got a broken head bolt from nowhere one at the bottom that goes into the coolant and it stripped off the threads in the process of pulling the piece out. I put a helicoil to have a good thread but I just dont feel confident at all.

Thanks again mob

Nick

 

[2000xp8]

The cam is not giving you trouble, it's likely vacumm leaks. The E is not very radical.

Me personally, i would just buy a complete shortblock from a repudable company that builds them.
By the time you buy a rotating assembly, have your block machine, internals balanced and assemble it, you very well may pay more that what it would of cost to just get one in the mail.

I know here in NJ, $800-$1500 is the labor alone on any engine completed with balancing. Then you have all the parts.
Big name companys get the parts real cheap, so they cut you a break on the machine work.
I'd look into CHP.

 

[rideapony]

Thanks 2000xp8 for this new advice. I thought about this other possibility and I kind of like the DSS short block adds, but again this hole thing goes at the end like a goal/challenge to be able to build this short block myself from scratch.

I know it sounds somewhat stupid but I want to be proud of that accomplishment.

I'll work around some machine shops here in Santa Rosa Ca. in search of the best quote. Thanks again 2000xp8 for your suggestions.

Nick

 

[rideapony]

Well it looks like I started my rebuilding project in very good shape (knock-on-wood) I pulled a short block out of a '91 T-bird. The 0dometer read 108k miles and looked very good.

A couple of days ago I started taking the short block apart and I was plessantly surprised of the great condition of the internals; crank races nice and smooth, connecting rods, bearings they are good without any scoring even the bearings are in excellent shape but of course I will put new ones. I don't expect any surprices from the block integrity but will find out soon when they degrease it.

Another good thing is that this block is in did a roller one, and surfing thru web I found that it is the same block that came in the '93 HO-MFI Mustang, Cobra & Pace car (Casting code F1SE) I found this info here http://www.cehighperformance.com/ford_block_car_codes.htm so it should be good, as for the top mob's suggestion sounds good.

Nick

 

[Foxfan88]

your rebuild adventure sounds similar to how mine was.

I wanted to build an engine, i really didnt need to. My engine ran fine but i wanted to anyways.

My machinist had a longblock from a 93 stang. I bought it cheap for 100 bucks. the condition of the engine was unknown.

I tore it down. turns out there was some sort of injector failure or something, one of the cylinders ran SUPERLEAN and this was the reason the engine was removed. the cyl wall was scored badly and the rings had welded themselves to the piston, The piston was cracked and there were some small crack on the others as well. They were the hypereutectic pistons so i figured a good set of forged would be better for my car anway if i ever get boost or nitrous.

So the pistons were junk, we mic'd the crank and the journals were within spec. All it needed was a good polish which i did with some emery cloth, crank looked nice.

I needed some pistons, luckily my friend had a set of forged pistons from his old engine, they looked great, i payed 50$ for a perfect set of pistons with the rods also.

Time for the machining, gave the block, pistons and everything to my machinist. i am on a budget and my newly aquired pistons were for a stock 4 inch bore... i kept the stock bore and just got a nice hone to clean the wall.

The scored cylinder i had sleeved, where they drill the cyl out, heat the block up and press in a sleeve and when the block cools it holds the sleeve tight so it cant come out, its a brand new cyl wall yay!

Also got new cam bearings and freeze plugs, and other stuff.
All the machining cost me 225$, i had clean and fresh parts ready to assemble.

I bought a B-cam from the stangnet classified for 75$. i always wanted a nioce cam with a nice lope and i got lucky and found it cheap.

I Then bought a basic rebuild kit from summit. The basic rering kit. Stock bearing sized and stock size rings. the kit was 200 and came with all gaskets and everything i needed.

I then assembled my shortblock. was super easy and went very smooth.

At this time i was out of cash, i worked at fastfood and had no money, i saved some cash but usually spent it on the car, t5 swap and bolt ons. All of which would go with the new engine so it wasnt money wasted.

I graduated in May, i got some cash from my family around 900$ to spend.

I found a set of used thumper heads on the corral. I grabbed them for 400$
I had Tmoss port an extra lower intake i had laying around, cost me 150$ and all the nick nacks i bought to finish up the enigne.

I finished the engine that had been sitting for 6 months.

Fired up and sounded super nice and ran pretty strong, turned out i had the timing super off. lol and when i timed it right the car picked up even more.

so all i spent,
100 for engine
225 for machining
200 for rebuilt kit
75 for cam
75 for roller rockers
50 for pistons
400 for heads
150 for intake
150-200 on small stuff, WP, timing chain etc....


i spent a grand total of around 1500$ on my whole engine build up and it runs super nice for such a cheap engine.

sorry for rambling lol

about the cam, your E-cam shouldnt be giving u problems. Sounds like a vac leak or something.

My B-cam with 1.7s is bigger than the E and mine idles super nice and never acts up.

Check all the vac lines and adjust the idle and set the tps

the tbird engine sounds like nice doner and u could most likely reuse the crank dna pistons and keep the stock bore. it all depends on your expectations and your budget. The sky is the limit!

 

[rideapony]

Foxfan 88 thank you for sharing your experience and I bet you feel very proud of completing that project yourself, I personally think that's what is all about.

I know I could use the same pistons as they look very good but shopping around I think I can find a no too $$ but decent set of 0.030" over pistons and rings to convert this block to 306.

I will re-use crank and connecting rods not without replacing the bearings; I just want to make sure this engine runs as smooth as possible for long time specially the bottom.

As for the top I have my eye on a set of GT40 P and and Trickflow upper/lower and I'm debating with myself if I just swap the not too old E303 and lifters I'm running on my ride to the rebuild when the time comes up. That with a new set of 1.7 rr's that I have....will see.

Regarding the idle troubles I'm having, I'm not even sure what's going on end probably you're right but I searched every inch of the upper/lower intakes and no leaks were found. I read a lot of related forums and followed many advices I even spliced every single wire from the bulky "salt & pepper" connectors, the top of the engine looks much better without them but the idle still wanders from time to time . I'll keep trying .

Soon I will post some pics. of my ride, I know people steer at it. That makes me feel good

Nick

 

[Foxfan88]

if your lifters are fairly new they are most likely alright for the new engine.

I resued the stock lifters from the doner engine, and i am running a cam and the 1.7 rocker arm. The hyd roller lifters last damn near forever. Unless something is really jacked up the lifters should be good to go if u want to reuse them.

 

[rideapony]

I agree with you Foxfan88. Everything goes as planned so far.

Than you all, Nick

 

[Killer50stang]

Hi all, very interesting and helpfull topics. I own a '90 GT which I upgraded myself with all the typical things like; five lug, 17's, cobra/Bullit brakes, 3.55's and all of that. My engine is a little tired and would like to rebuild one. I really like to do those things myself and know somewhat what to do.

I have in my plans a 5.0 HO from a '91 T-bird which seems to be in very decent shape with no visible over-abuse I just want to use the bottom end to put some decent components for good/really good power and long life. I'll use some other heads/int/exh components.

New short block is better but I'm trying to save some bucks in this project. I read an article saying that it is good to rebuild a block that has been working for a while because it has been primmed and has been running thru so many heat/cold cycles which is in the more stable conditions.

The advice I need is if it is OK to use the T-bird roller HO short block for the rebuild and if it is worth it, also any specific rebuilding kits to stay as 302,306 but no more than 331. thank you all for any suggestions. I want to do this because you all know the feeling of doing special projects like this by yourself with some help obviously.

Nick.

Well, 331 is a stroker, so if you're trying to go that route, then you're not going to save any money. The kits alone are around $1,000. I'd say, take the 302 and rebuild it. New springs, valves, all new gaskets, new water pump, etc. I had my 351 quoted around $200 labor to tank it, put a cam and pistons in and rebuild my heads for another $100. If you can find a price like this, do it.

Jason

 

[rideapony]

Thank you Killer50stang for your advice I agree there will be no savings going to a strocker. The decission has been made, even if I'm going to put a little more money than I expected I will make it a 306 so pistons, rings and all the bearings will be replaced internally as well as timing chain kit;crank, damper and flywheel to be balanced. Boy I hardly wait for this to happen!!!!

Machine shop job is darn expensive up here in Northern California (Santa Rosa) but there is no way around it.

Thank you all, Nick

 

[rideapony]

Well I had a bit of progress on my rebuild. As I predicted the crankshaft is in great condition and the races just needed to be buffed little bit I'm using a set of Clevite H main bearings and Clevite P connecting rod bearings.

I ordered a TRW forged pistons with Moly rings, ARP main and connecting rods fasteners.

Now as planned I'll be using GT40 P heads which have 60cc chambers. The pistons I ordered suppoused to give a 9.42:1 comp. ratio with 60.4cc chambers; so by using 60cc will be closed to 9.5:1 ratio. My questions are will this CR be safe and what fuel grade do I need t use?

Thanks for the advices, Nick

 

[rideapony]

Boy it's been a while I've been so busy doing a bunch of things but not working on my engine.
Plans have change since then I'm searching to buy a set of 165cc AFR heads but not sure which ones to get 58cc or 61cc I have speed pro forged flat top pistons. They say that the compression ratio will be 9.67:1 with 58.2cc chambers and 9.42:1 with 61cc chambers. Which ones to get and fuel octane expect to use?

Also has anyone tried the PRW stainless steel roller rockers? They look close to the Comp Cams pro-magnum ones. I would like to get some opinions about them if someone is using them.

I'm trying to get 7/16 stud mount 1.6 ratio, they are 190 bucks at CNCmotorspots.com but they have them on eBay to buy for 139 bucks. They are made by PRW. Any help will be appreciated !!!!

Thank you, Nick

 

[rideapony]

Please, anyone???

Nick