zenboy99
Founding Member
Yeah, the Trick Flow springs suck, you'll need to replace those right away. If you get a custom cam through Ed C, he'll set you up with something.
Sorry guys but I change mind about AFR 165, I getting TFS Twisted Wedge
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HairyCanary said:I know someone with Edelbrock Performer 5.0 heads on a 91 LX that has run a best of 9.88 in the quarter. Bet that's more than 470 rwhp, and most people would agree that both AFR and TW are "better". This same person used to run very low 11's with E7TE heads. Boost is the great equalizer, it makes your choice of heads less important.
Dave
The newer 60379's are actually pretty good. There is at least one RS car that uses them and has ran in the 9's with them.
Why valve sprinds on Twisted Wedge are bad, how compare stock valve springs vs TW valve springs, I read somewhere those springs are good to 5800-6000rpms
95snoozer said:
Well, I have "those" without the upgrade and I have just a tad more lift than that, and I have made dyno pulls to 6300 without a hint of valve float... that's not too bad IMO for a spring "with issues". Has anyone here actually had a problem with the stock un-upgraded valve spring from AFR? Besides RockinRick breaking one (I think) I know of no one with issues. There's no need to start slamming because we could bring up all the problems with worn valve guides and such that plagued TW for YEARS and the dropped valves that took out more than their share of bottom ends. Some of you may not remember those days, but I sure do. Now, are they fixed now... from what I hear, yes so lets not have a 5 page discussion on it and let's leave the mud slinging to the politicians... they wait 4 yrs to do it! Let's try and keep the un-necessary remarks and "low blows" out of Ernies post, that goes for the pro-TW AND pro-AFR people. It has all been covered time and time again... there's no need for it to continue here. He made up his mind that the TW's are the better choice for what he wants and asked that a flame fest doesn't ensue. I say good luck Ernie, and are you planning on coming down here to PRP anytime soon? It'd be cool to meet up with you!
Rootus
Officially Addicted
I'm not sure why it is that people have to get all bent out of shape when the topic of heads comes up. AFR makes very good heads. So does TFS. So does Edelbrock. So does Ford. And so on. Buy what fits in your budget and meets your goals.
BTW, Seth, your sig stills says "WTB AFR 165 HEADS"
Dave
BTW, Seth, your sig stills says "WTB AFR 165 HEADS"
Dave
Killercanary said:Well, I have "those" without the upgrade and I have just a tad more lift than that, and I have made dyno pulls to 6300 without a hint of valve float... that's not too bad IMO for a spring "with issues". Has anyone here actually had a problem with the stock un-upgraded valve spring from AFR? Besides RockinRick breaking one (I think) I know of no one with issues. There's no need to start slamming because we could bring up all the problems with worn valve guides and such that plagued TW for YEARS and the dropped valves that took out more than their share of bottom ends. Some of you may not remember those days, but I sure do. Now, are they fixed now... from what I hear, yes so lets not have a 5 page discussion on it and let's leave the mud slinging to the politicians... they wait 4 yrs to do it! Let's try and keep the un-necessary remarks and "low blows" out of Ernies post, that goes for the pro-TW AND pro-AFR people. It has all been covered time and time again... there's no need for it to continue here. He made up his mind that the TW's are the better choice for what he wants and asked that a flame fest doesn't ensue. I say good luck Ernie, and are you planning on coming down here to PRP anytime soon? It'd be cool to meet up with you!
I'm not slamming either head, or any head for that matter. However I have had problems with both the TW springs and the AFR standard springs. Sure, some may get away with the stock springs on either head but I promise you that your engine would be safer with better springs and have the possibility of making a little more power up top. For the extra investment it's a good idea to upgrade, on either head.
For not wanting to slam any heads you sure bring up alot of past issues.
YEAHLOH95
Founding Member
i far as down the road i'm going up to 331 ci and i think i just might keep these heads for that motor too and see how they work . 
stangboy
Founding Member
I'm not gonna bash any heads here because I have some friends with TW heads that are making good power and I have friends with Edelbrocks making good power. I have AFR 185s, they feel like they're making good power but I don't know exactly how much power they're making. I can run with some pretty fast cars so I'm guessing I'm not doing too bad. I did have to flycut my pistons for the intake valves to clear. On TW heads the intake valve is in a different position so it can clear the stock valve reliefs....I just had to clear that up because it was mention earlier in the post and nobody really addressed it. But I got my 185s because I plan to go with a 331 soon and I didn't want to have to buy heads again.....I know the 165s would have worked fine with a 331 but the 185s will work better. As for springs, I didn't get the spring upgrade on mine because I'm not using a cam with a whole lot of lift and I don't rev past 6000 yet. When I get the 331 I'll upgrade. I've only heard 1 horror story about a spring issue with AFRs and I just chalked that up as the person probably was running a cam with more lift than what the standard .550 lift springs could handle. It didn't matter to me because I as gonna get my AFR anyway.
Well, good luck with whatever heads you decide to get, Seth. I'm sure you'll make good power with whatever ones you get.
It didn't matter to me because I as gonna get my AFR anyway.Well, good luck with whatever heads you decide to get, Seth. I'm sure you'll make good power with whatever ones you get.
Rootus
Officially Addicted
Sleepy McNastee
New Member
Killercanary said:He made up his mind that the TW's are the better choice for what he wants and asked that a flame fest doesn't ensue. I say good luck Ernie, and are you planning on coming down here to PRP anytime soon? It'd be cool to meet up with you!
Thank you Paul
I wanna come down there in your area and meet you and some other guys, meybe sometime next month
I coming with my Stang and my brother will come in his 96 Probe GT
zenboy99
Founding Member
95snoozer said:
Every single engine builder I talked to told me to change the springs, even the UPS guy that delivered the heads to me told me to change the springs! 110 pounds of seat pressure was no were near what Ed recomended, he told me right away that I would have to change the springs and I have .542 lift also. You're the first person I've heard from that says the springs are good.
The trickflow outflow the 165s by something like 3-4cfm. They have nothing on the 185s though. It is easier for air to move around a 1.90 valve than a 2.02. I am not saying that afrs are better than trickflow, but I am saying if you are going to compare it needs to be afr185s against the trickflow.
Trickflows twisted wedge
Lift
(in.) Valve Intake
(CFM) Exhaust
(CFM)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.100 63 53
0.200 141 107
0.300 205 144
0.400 233 171
0.500 251 187
0.600 251 193
AFR 165
Intake Exhaust
.200 123/118
.300 186/153
.400 225/178
.500 246/190
.600 250/191
AFR185
Intake Exhaust
.200 129/118
.300 189/153
.400 234/178
.500 267/185
.600 277/191
Snoozer, you are wrong here in saying that the TW should be compared to the 165. I will find the link for you that explains it as I don't want to provide you with the wrong info. It has to do with the design of the port of the TW head, I believe (though I will do my best to find the info for you) that with the 2.02" valve the intake port is shorter than a standard ford valve design. Therefore the distance from the intake side of the head to the valve is shorter than say the AFR head. Since the port is shorter in length its volume is made up in width (meaning it has a big wide short port), therefore its velocity can't be thought of in the same way as a smaller diameter, longer port of an AFR. This is why the TW is better compared to the AFR185. There was a 10+ page on this on the corral a few months back. Like I said, I'll do my best to find the info for you as it was a lot more technical than my description and I'm going purely off memory of what I read.
