The best supercharger. . . . . .is a turbocharger.

[90mustangGT]

If I had a turbo combo, I would have gotten a C4 with a big stall, then turbolag wouldn't be an issue.

 

[5spd GT]

There are two main reasons for the popularity of a supercharger over a turbo: Price (new) and available shops to properly install a turbo...

 

[Mavrick]

SC whine is awesome.. especially the KB's - I'll have a louadass one someday.

I'm not a big fan of turbo's.. the turbo leg being the main reason.. for a street car that is.

 

[roush69racing]

IMO being N/A and looking in, the turbo is more efficient and the appeal to me for a J/Y turbo setup is very high. The bad points are turbo companies have a legacy of being shady (a few bad apples...). It is quite complicated to do a J/Y turbo setup (I am afraid to waste money and dont have time to see what fits).

So to counter that, there are very reputable S/C's out there and the have brand recognition. Everyone who deals with mustangs know who vortec and paxton are.

just out of curiousosity what does your car weigh?? compression?

 

[shttygtstang]

i love the sound of a turbo the way it screems at high rpms being able to adjust boost with the turn of a dail

i just read the new mm ff did any one see the tt cobra inthere compared to the sc's

 

[BaXTeR3221]

i would love to build a junkyard turbo kit, but i dont have the know-how or the patience. The supercharger i can install myself and it will make more than enough power for me. The only thing i wish i could do was adjust the boost from in the car, like a turbo. Otherwise, i glad i got the supercharger.

 

[PNY PWR]

To me the installation isn't that difficult. With a SCer, you have to mess around with changing/moving the accessories, etc. For both you have to tap the pan (in most cases), you have to get your hands dirty, etc. for both.

LOL, tapping the pan was the easiest part of my hell weekend

 

[shttygtstang]

a supercharger to me was so much easyer i mean jy turbo would be the same price as sc ..but i dont know how to cut pipe bend pipe and i own a welder but common i couldnt weld a hole turbo kit w/ no leaks here ya guy go if some ones looking into a jy turbo system


http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/21.shtml

 

[TT91]

Cammednotch,this is INDA10s, keep it on tm.com and let stangnet be. If everyone has a turbo, then it wouldnt be any fun. GO back to working on your car..your almost done, then u can talk smack.

 

[millhouse]

Absolutely, a twin turbo is a wonderful thing and can offer the best of both worlds - power down low and in the mid-high rpm range. The main thing going for a s/c is the fact that it is off-the-line power from the get go. Twin turbos eliminate the biggest concern about the arena - turbo lag. The way I see it is if you can get rid ot the biggest drawback and downside to a certain thing then by all means go for it.

However as also stated, price is a big issue. While turbos are nice, they are certainly pricey and when you hop in the world of twin turbos then you only pay for it even more so!

Compaired to a snail style supercharger, a properly sized single or twin setup will have tons more off the line power. Turbos down low are much more compairable to a kb supercharger.

It seems nowadays, turbos have a bad rep for lag. In reality, a turbo that's matched for your application will have a very insignificant amount of lag (unless you have an all out dragqueen). It's funny that there are not more people mentioning the superchargers lack of creating full boost until redline.

 

[criticman]

JY Turbo is hard to build and I don't have the know-how
It is true that it can indeed be hard, but there are PLENTY of great resources out there to get you started:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/
http://www.twinturbostang.com/
http://www.geocities.com/windsor_302/
http://www.turborides.com/modules.php?name=Jig
(to name a few)

I can't weld, bend tubing
eBay, as well as many online resources, allow you to buy the tubing ready to go. Also, your local shops can bend pipes for you. If you have a technical college in town, odds are there is a decent shop class there that you can find someone to do some welding for you.

If you don't want to try something new, just find someone who has done it already. Odds are they have all of the specs/details so your work will be a lot easier.

Turbo lag sucks
It depends on the size turbo you go with. The smaller the turbo, the quicker it spools up and can reach full boost. You can find a happy medium between cfm and spool up time. Also, superchargers are not at full power from the get go. They are driven by the engine drive system, so as stated, you won't experience full power until the RPMs are right.

 

[Cammed90Notch]

Can't argue with that point. There was a thread a short time ago about "Junkyard Turbos". Several of the long time Stangnetters have built their own kits with some excellent results. These guys were a whiz at eyeballing something and welding up some tubing, mandrel bent elbows
and having it come out looking professional.

Getting it optimumally (sp?) tuned requires some dyno time for both superchargers and turbos. A sharp guy with the right talent and tuning tools to burn a custom chip or set up a different computer system is a must.

By the way Cammed90Notch, I like your website: don't know if I would ever be up to diving into learning Greek though.

Thanks, Koine Greek (i.e.-Biblical Greek) and Hebrew are just some hobbies, and I'll get more into them as I progress through college and seminary. The Word of God is just so awesome and deep!

 

[Cammed90Notch]

SC whine is awesome.. especially the KB's - I'll have a louadass one someday.

I'm not a big fan of turbo's.. the turbo leg being the main reason.. for a street car that is.

lag is basically a myth. I rode in a friend's GN and was LOOKING for lag and couldn't find any (stall, 3 1/2 downpipe, upgraded fuel, etc). "Lag" is so overplayed!

 

[Cammed90Notch]

Cammednotch,this is INDA10s, keep it on tm.com and let stangnet be. If everyone has a turbo, then it wouldnt be any fun. GO back to working on your car..your almost done, then u can talk smack.

But I wanna do it now

 

[mackey]

What kind of times are you expecting from your homemade setup? Times/hp #s

 

[Daggar]

Turbo systems these days do seem to be more elaborate and a more elegant way to make lots and lots of power. I'm far from anyone who could say that they know anything about turbos but one thing does seem to grab my attention quite a bit. Turbo setups often require that you have your entire setup pre-planned. What I mean by that is that when you select your turbo setup, it's with the understanding that you know EXACTLY what you're putting it on. What short block, what compression, what heads and cam.... It all has to work together pretty well and the components of the motor have to complement the turbo combo and vise versa. In answer to the original thread question about why I'd selected the SC that I'd selected. I've got a stock short block in the car now. A stroked 331 is slowly underway. I wanted a power adder that would work great for my current setup and be able to grow when the engine grew. I selected the 2.2L Blowzilla. When it comes time to slap that 331 stroker up underneath that Blowzilla, the only real mod I will have to make to my power adder is a puley change. If more flow is required beyond that then it's a faiirly simple swap of the intake and boosted manifolds to the Flowzilla setup. I'm pullied for 9 lbs now. The 2.2L KB will easily put out 18 lbs without breaking a sweat and I've seen them run as much 24lbs. Some of those combos included after-coolers while others did not. Some even had proprietary water injection systems in lieu of an after-cooler. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that a turbo combo is going to offer me that kind of versatility. Some of the turbo systems I've seen out there are awesome. But it sure seems like you'd better have your whole planned mapped out pretty meticulously... Everything from the short block right up to and including the intake and turbo setup. If you plan on making any changes from that point on, it seems like a pretty expensive and involved process to also match the turbo setup to those changes.

 

[schradermt]

Last year (before i saw the light and bought a stang) i had a turbo civic del sol running 8lbs and the year before that i was running a SCer on it running 8.5lbs...in my opinion the turbo had it hands down with top end and really not that less reliable as long as you have good tuning and and not running crazy boost youre not gonna break anything...yea you have to do some extra plumbing with charge pipes and exhaust but in the end its amazing....the nice thing about the SCer was that it was power right off the start...and also it was stealthy on hondas the SCer is integrated into the intake manifold so unless you know what youre lookin for you wont see it...but long gone are those days of raspy exhausts ....btw these times and numbers are relevant to mustangs but with the turbo i was runnin 13.9 and the SCer was 14.2 in the quarter...dyno numbers with turbo on 8lbs was 193 whp...and the SCer on 8.5 lbs was 178hp

 

[mr_woodster]

If you plan on making any changes from that point on, it seems like a pretty expensive and involved process to also match the turbo setup to those changes.

Yes and no. Selecting a turbo is as simple as learning to read a turbo map. You obviously did your reasearch before selecting your blowzilla... that same effort could have picked you a turbo that worked well for both applications.
I started out with a horsepower goal, in order to reach that i work a little harder due to alot less displament. So i picked a turbo that has the ability to flow 450+ on my motor (58lb/min) with moderate spool time( IE: plenty of power under the curve).

You can go as far as to plot out your whole setup (cam lift/dur,stroke, VE,runner lenght etc) and that will only help you to better size a turbo for your goal....But like the topic of this thread has stated, the real mysterious aspects of turbo application are really disapearing.
I believe it was musclemustangs mag that just did the turbo/kb/vortech cobra motor.....and they picked some kick butt (overly big for only 14 psi) turbo's and made 100's more hp/tq than the top of the line s/c's offerd now.
With those turbo's they could easily blow the 1000hp level on that motor and still have room to breath....and having full boost by 3800 rpm.

Ps: turbo's suck! (more for me!!! )

 

[Daggar]

Yes and no. Selecting a turbo is as simple as learning to read a turbo map. You obviously did your reasearch before selecting your blowzilla... that same effort could have picked you a turbo that worked well for both applications.
I started out with a horsepower goal, in order to reach that i work a little harder due to alot less displament. So i picked a turbo that has the ability to flow 450+ on my motor (58lb/min) with moderate spool time( IE: plenty of power under the curve).

You can go as far as to plot out your whole setup (cam lift/dur,stroke, VE,runner lenght etc) and that will only help you to better size a turbo for your goal....But like the topic of this thread has stated, the real mysterious aspects of turbo application are really disapearing.
I believe it was musclemustangs mag that just did the turbo/kb/vortech cobra motor.....and they picked some kick butt (overly big for only 14 psi) turbo's and made 100's more hp/tq than the top of the line s/c's offerd now.
With those turbo's they could easily blow the 1000hp level on that motor and still have room to breath....and having full boost by 3800 rpm.

Ps: turbo's suck! (more for me!!! )

What of all of the different pieces and parts associated with that turbo? Assuming we've installed a turbo that is overkill for our current applicant but leaves us room to grow for our future application; what changes will need to be made to exhaust system (the life's blood of the turbo) and all of the other things that make that setup work? I've seen adjusters etc. that allow you to set the turbo boost as easily as turning a knob but I imagine that if you had and end goal in mind that you would want to ensure that the exhaust is setup for that end goal (i.e. large enough for that monster motor in future). With that in mind, what kind of hit did the bottom end of the torque and power curve take up to 3800 RPM while the smaller displacement motor was trying to make enough "wind" to get that turbo to start producing? (Again I compare this to the KB which makes full boost at 2300 RPM @ WOT and the 9 lb pulley... less RPM with a smaller pulley and more boost and makes partial boost just off idle.) Or was it a matter or swapping components in the exhaust so that it suit each application? I use the exhaust as my primary example because I've seen how elaborate some of the turbo setups can be when you're talking about making a great setup that works really well. What other changes to the turbo combo must be made when swapping it over to an engine combination capable of handling allot more boost and making allot more HP?

P.S.
I will tell you though.... every setup seems to have an Achillies Heel. For my setup, it's the lack of an aftercooler for my application (this is not an issue for the modular motors). The discharge temp coming from the very efficient (and comparitively large) 2.2L KB is significantly lower than that of a centrifugal or the smaller 1.5L KB but certainly would still benefit from an aftercooler to bring down the discharge temps more still. As of yet, I've been unable to get my combo to predetonate with the 9 lb pulley. That's with the AFR set to near 14.7. Now that the AFR is correct (roughly 12.5) detonation is not an issue at all (this is all running 91 Octane gas). I believe I can probably run 11 lbs or more with no problems just by stepping up to 93 octane (there may even be room left with the 91). I still catch myself considering what the full potential of that blower might be with an aftercooler on a 5oh.

 

[millhouse]

What of all of the different pieces and parts associated with that turbo? Assuming we've installed a turbo that is overkill for our current applicant but leaves us room to grow for our future application; what changes will need to be made to exhaust system (the life's blood of the turbo) and all of the other things that make that setup work? I've seen adjusters etc. that allow you to set the turbo boost as easily as turning a knob but I imagine that if you had and end goal in mind that you would want to ensure that the exhaust is setup for that end goal (i.e. large enough for that monster motor in future). With that in mind, what kind of hit did the bottom end of the torque and power curve take up to 3800 RPM while the smaller displacement motor was trying to make enough "wind" to get that turbo to start producing? (Again I compare this to the KB which makes full boost at 2300 RPM @ WOT and the 9 lb pulley... less RPM with a smaller pulley and more boost and makes partial boost just off idle.) Or was it a matter or swapping components in the exhaust so that it suit each application? I use the exhaust as my primary example because I've seen how elaborate some of the turbo setups can be when you're talking about making a great setup that works really well. What other changes to the turbo combo must be made when swapping it over to an engine combination capable of handling allot more boost and making allot more HP?

P.S.
I will tell you though.... every setup seems to have an Achillies Heel. For my setup, it's the lack of an aftercooler for my application (this is not an issue for the modular motors). The discharge temp coming from the very efficient (and comparitively large) 2.2L KB is significantly lower than that of a centrifugal or the smaller 1.5L KB but certainly would still benefit from an aftercooler to bring down the discharge temps more still. As of yet, I've been unable to get my combo to predetonate with the 9 lb pulley. That's with the AFR set to near 14.7. Now that the AFR is correct (roughly 12.5) detonation is not an issue at all (this is all running 91 Octane gas). I believe I can probably run 11 lbs or more with no problems just by stepping up to 93 octane (there may even be room left with the 91). I still catch myself considering what the full potential of that blower might be with an aftercooler on a 5oh.

For the most part, you set up your exhaust for your potentials and leave it. The exhaust wont be the restriction as far as power goes...it will be the turbo and perhaps intake/heads.

Now consider this. Once my jy tt kit is complete and installed, the twins will be capable of stock block splitting h/p...all while reaching full boost before 2800 rpms. While the KB does have a small advantage in that arena, the turbo's make up for it on the high end. If (and when) I ever want to make more h/p than the current twins can handle, the headers should be adequate to do so. Worst case scenario is for me having to remake the cold parts...which I will already be experienced in doing so.

Another thing I took into consideration is the stress on the stock block. 302's are notorious for crank walk, especially at higher h/p levels. Any supercharger can potentially make this much worse. It is my belief that a stock 302 can handle more h/p with a turbo than with a supercharger for this very reason.

As easy as it may be for you to swap a pulley I will be able to throw in some race fuel, up the boost and make several drag strip passes before you even get your stock pulley off.

Turbo's are not nearly as complicated as you seem to be making them.