time for new heads...help please?

[mike93lx]

Ok, so it is time to replace my Twisted Wedge Heads and I have a few questions.
First off, here are the goals...Car will get a single turbo, hopefully within a year or so. ET goal is 10.50, and I won't push it beyond that in this car. Looking for great street behavior and I's like it to be able to pass emissions. I'm going to pull the existing cam and put in a much mroe mild one, either close to stock or a custom grind. The stock fuel system will likely get replaced with a GEN 7.

1. Currently debating Victor Jr's and AFR185's. My enigne guy is saying Victor Jr's but I've always wanted AFR's and I like the idea of an emission's legal head. I know the Victor Jr's are way bigger, but can the AFR's be ported out to be comprable? Do I need all the flow anyway?

2. Is it possible to have too much valve spring pressure? I am getting float up around 6200 rpm right now and I have to guess that I have about 130lb springs. I was suggested something in the mid to high 100's. I don't see myself looking to wring it out past 6000 once I have the turbo, but I don't want the chance of float before the power curve starts to drop off.

3. Should I keep the Systemax intake with the turbo, or look for something else?

Any other recommendations?

 

[5spd GT]

AFR 185 Series:

033-1422 – Street/Track, 185cc Head, 58cc, 2.02”/1.60” Valves, Dual Valve Spring w/ dampner (.550”), 10* locks, 3/8” rocker studs, smog provisions. $1,420.

033-1492* – Street/Track, 185cc Head, 60cc, 2.02”/1.60” Valves, Dual Valve Spring w/ dampner (.550”), 10* locks, smog provisions. $1,420.

.550” lift springs have 120# of spring pressure and 69cc exhaust port.

*Pedestal Mount, not stud-mounted rockers.

Airflow Chart for Street AFR 185 Heads:

Lift Value (in.) - Intake Flow - Exhaust Flow (w 1 3/4" pipe)

Inches - CFM - CFM

0.200 - 129 - 118
0.300 - 189 - 153
0.400 - 234 - 178
0.500 - 267 - 185
0.550 - 273 - 190
0.600 - 277 - 191

Tests conducted at 28 in. of water (pressure)
Intake valve size 2.020 in./exhaust valve size 1.600 in.


Edelbrock Victor Jr.

EDL-77189 - Victor Jr., 210cc, 60cc, 2.050"/1.600" Valves, 1.550" Dual Valve Springs (.650"), 7/16" rocker studs, no smog provisions, and not machined for o-rings.

.150" raised valve cover rail, 75cc exhaust port with .130" raised.

Airflow Chart for Victor Jr. Heads:

Lift Value (in.) - Intake Flow - Exhaust Flow

Inches - CFM - CFM

0.100 - 127 - 108
0.200 - 186 - 140
0.300 - 234 - 167
0.400 - 268 - 189
0.500 - 291 - 195
0.600 - 285 - 199

Tests conducted at 28 in. of water (pressure)
Intake valve size 2.050 in./exhaust valve size 1.600 in.

The Victor Jr's flow more than the 185's by a little bit. What has been stated from a few engine builders, like Rick_91GT on this site, is that the Vic. Jr's do not flow as much as Edelbrock claims from his and others testing.

Many think that to high of spring pressures hurts horsepower, but that isn't true.

For every valve spring compressing and opening the valve, another valve spring is expanding and closing the valve. They cancel each other at. In some engineering circles, it is called a regenerative characteristic.

As for my personal suggestion, I think either would go great for your combo. That turbo will let you see your goals with enough boost.

Some older school builders will suggest things they have used and are comfortable with. Most newer age builders know about the AFR's and the power they create. Either one will work for you though man!

Keep the Systemax

Good Luck!

 

[mike93lx]

wow! thanks for all the info. i was definitely expecting more out of the victor jr's. considering that I want to pass emissions, the AFR's seem like the right option, plus they have room for porting.

andI'll hang on to the systemax.

Thanks!

 

[Sicarius428]

Just get your TFS heads ported. Probably a lot cheaper and can flow plenty.
Kevin

 

[cenok is family]

Just get your TFS heads ported. Probably a lot cheaper and can flow plenty.
Kevin

+1

and if not, how much for the twisted wedge heads?

 

[Grn92LX]

Twisted wedges are fine for your 10.50 goal in a 306 turbo car. Put your money elseware.

 

[Flavadave4]

Why not hang on to the TW heads and put yor money into the turbo system?

 

[rj95svt]

There isn't even a need to port the tfs heads for a combo like that! You can make stock block splitting hp with a stock 5.0 with a single turbo at around 14 psi. Save your money and buy a aftermarket block!

 

[thumper460]

10.50's is cake on a turbo... and ported GT40 IRON HEADS!!!! Your heads are good!!! And this "smog leagle Bull ****!! ALL that means is the company spent the money to get a CARB number.. the heads arent going to fail the emissions... all the other stuff will!!!!!

ME?? Keep the TF's, have then re-worked and ported !! IF you are floating valves ...STOP IT!! Guessing at spring pressures is a good way to trash an engine!!.. what is the cam..
say you need?? Even though you buy heads with " double springs" installed... who knows what they are?? Just a thought!!

Just me.............................................

Thumper

 

[Sicarius428]

The holley intake is just fine. A great deal of people with forced induction use it.
Kevin

 

[5spd GT]

10.50's is cake on a turbo... and ported GT40 IRON HEADS!!!! Your heads are good!!! And this "smog leagle Bull ****!! ALL that means is the company spent the money to get a CARB number.. the heads arent going to fail the emissions... all the other stuff will!!!!!

ME?? Keep the TF's, have then re-worked and ported !! IF you are floating valves ...STOP IT!! Guessing at spring pressures is a good way to trash an engine!!.. what is the cam..
say you need?? Even though you buy heads with " double springs" installed... who knows what they are?? Just a thought!!

Just me.............................................

Thumper

I want to make a few comments about this:

The smog provisions means that it accepts a smog tube and/or has the thermactor plugs. Some people like thermactor plug holes so they can reinstall on their factory car, or for better resale value. Yes, I said better resale value.

To spring comments, it is a means of comparison on what comes with the heads from the factory and with that corresponding part number that was given. It NEVER was intended to serve as a limiter. With that part number, that is what you will get.

I gave him basic comparative information on the heads he had in question. I never said, he has to get one of them.

 

[thumper460]

5spdgt... you fine.. I wasnt trying to dis anyheads... I , like you, was just put it out there!! Sorry if I sounded like a Delts Serria !! cool??

Tpr

 

[Flavadave4]

You're a funny guy Thumper

Just me

 

[mike93lx]

definitely wasn't expecting this kind of response.

The TW heads are defienitely coming off and will be fore sale for around $500-700 in the late winter/early spring. They heads make good power as is and definitely flow more than enough, but have a significant "tick" that is driving me up a wall. I have been told that the machine work to correct the issue (it is a common problem with older TW heads apparently) will cost several hundred dollars. I would much rather put that to different heads than to try and fix something that isn't for sure.

Thumper - the cam is a custom grind from a time that I didn't know my ass from my elbow with mustangs. All I know is that I was told is was designed for a supercharged car (my old plans) and is "huge".

I plan on yanking the motor before winter and either putting a stock cam back in or having a very mild custom grind made. Driveability is my #1 thing here.

 

[mike93lx]

I want to make a few comments about this:

The smog provisions means that it accepts a smog tube and/or has the thermactor plugs. Some people like thermactor plug holes so they can reinstall on their factory car, or for better resale value. Yes, I said better resale value.

5spd GT - Definitely no intention to sell the car, so resale isn't it for me. I literally just want the car to make great power and pass the sniffer in MA. It is getting harder and harder to get a sticker around here and I'd prefer to not deal with the headache every other year.