what makes the TWEECER so much cheaper?

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by Foxfan88, Jun 23, 2007.


  1. Foxfan88

    Foxfan88 My Grandpa has great wood.

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    i have been reasearcing means to tune and change parameters for the computer .

    AEM has a real nice looking setup. it totally replaces the stock computer and you can go in with a laptop and mess with thing, and comes standard with datalogging and pretty much all the features. for the plug n play it cost 1800 w/o a wideband IIRC

    WMS SDS system works the same, replaces stock computer and instead of a laptop it has a handheld tuning device and i duno for sure if you can datalog with this or not, it looks like a nice user friendly kit. it goes for 1-1200

    then i looked at the tweecer, plugs into the stock ECU and you can changed the parameters on a laptopand save them as you like. for 580 or w/e it is you can get the RT for data logging, a wideband o2 would be seperate but thats how they all are.

    it seems to have alot of features and looks like what i need.

    is the tweecer missing some features the other kits i listed have? and whats the learning curve, it seems like a great way t tune a FI car but also it seems it may be hard starting out. would a good way to go about it be.... get a nice wideband and tune fuel and stuff in every RPM increment in every gear to maintain an optimum AFR?

    does the tweecer have idle control?
    thanks for the help
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  2. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    With the tweecer you will only be limited by the stock Ford tune. This means that almost any setting/adjustment that Ford made, you will be able to modify.
    By using an editor other than the tweecer software (TunerPro, PCMX, etc.) you will have access to more settings, and you will have more flexibility with what adjustments you can make. Most of these other editors can be downloaded for free, but PCMX is $150 (for this price it includes some pretty nice functionality, but is far beyond the needs of the average tuner).

    As far as the tweecer learning curve...
    The hard part of tuning with the tweecer is learning how Ford tuned your ecu originally.
    Due to the complexity of the Ford tune, this can be a little time consuming.
    For some the time needed to get familiar with the tweecer is a negative. For me, it meant I was learning more detailed information on how the ecu worked.

    When you get your tweecer (if you decide to go that route), the first tune changes you make will reflect the hardware changes you have made to the car.
    Injector Size
    MAF meter Size
    TB airflow
    Turn off emissions devices that have been removed.

    After these tune adjustments, you will most likely see a difference in how the car drives/idles.

    You will also want to set the fuel pressure back to stock (38-41psi), and set the dist base timing to 10*.
    You return fuel and timing to factory base levels, because with the tweecer ALL timing and fuel adjustments can and should be made with the ecu. This will also make it easier to read the timing tables, as they assume 10* at the dist.


    Hope that answers some of your questions, let me know if you have others,
    jason
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  3. Foxfan88

    Foxfan88 My Grandpa has great wood.

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    so i cant go in and change the fuel and spark tables with the tweecer????

    and what do you mean by software exactly. like can you run a more in depth and complex program using the tweecer connector dealy?

    and i can run the dizzy at 10degress base advance and tinker with the comuter and have it do all the advancing for me?? so advancing base timing by loosening the dizzy would be useless to do then right??

    can i also add more fuel to the mix but changing the pulse width of the injectors? ( which goes along with the spark and fuel table question)

    and i can have different tunes saved for me. like an economy/ DD tune and then switch to a race tune or for n2o or boost? would have to have a laptop out to do this or is there a way to have a simple switch or something change the settings whenever i feel like it?

    and whats PIP mean i have seen that around but i dont know what i means.


    sorry for such newbie questions hehe gota learn somehow
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  4. Fett

    Fett New Member

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    Exactly. There are many ways to alter your timing through the Tweecer, the easiest way is using the "spark advance at WOT" setting, which is set at 0 in the PCM. The Tweecer allows you to add degrees of advance there, so your timing will ONLY advance at WOT. For instance, I have the same base tune in all my Tweecer settings (1, 2, 3, 4). But I changed the spark advance in those so I can change my timing at the track with a flick of a switch. One setting I have at 13* total advance, one at 15*, one at 17*, and one at stock 10* for when I am spraying.

    There are other ways to alter your timing as well, but as mentioned above you really need to understand how the stock PCM works. There are many things that can make the PCM alter your timing, and you can use those parameters to change spark under different conditions.

    Yes, there are different ways to alter your fuel tables. The first thing you want to do, if you have larger than stock 19lb injectors is to load that info into the Tweecer. You can load injector slopes and MAF info into the Tweecer. You can also adjust many other settings that will effect the A/F ratio.

    Yes, the Tweecer comes with a switch that allows you to load in 4 different calibrations....and a fifth setting for bypassing the Tweecer and running off the stock PCM. The really cool feature is that you can change on the fly. Like I said, I have the same basic tune in all my settings, but I have a different timing setting in each one. This way I start off at 15* advance on my first run at the track, and if I hear detonation, I can just flick the switch and back down to 13*. If the car feels fine and I am not having any issues, I can bump it up to 17*. Then when I want to start spraying, I switch it back to 10*. I always bring my laptop with me to datalog my runs, that way I can see if I am running lean, rich, and generally go back over my run and see what I did.

    If you decide to go with a Tweecer, make sure to get the RT version, that is the one you can datalog with. Also invest in a wide band o2, there are a few ways to can hook one up to your Tweecer so you can datalog and read your AF ratio while tuning.

    The bottom line is that the learning curve is pretty steep, and you should really read up and understand how the stock PCM works. But even before you start getting into some detailed tuning, the Tweecer allows you to input basic things that makes your car much more driveable...especially with things like larger injectors and a cam.
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  5. Fett

    Fett New Member

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  6. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    Well done Fett :nice:


    When you download 'Tweecer' to your computer, you are downloading 2 software programs, and a bunch of supporting files.
    The Programs are CalEdit and CalCon.
    CalEdit is used to make changes to the tune. If you want to change the size of the injector, you will make that change in CalEdit.
    There are better programs available though. CalEdit has some errors, and is a little limited on what parameters can be changed.
    I mentioned the other Editors above.

    CalCon is the software used to datalog. There is only one alternative program available to CalCon. BinEditor is the only datalogging software alternative to CalCon.

    The multiple tune option can save some time during the tuning process as well. I was able to load several alternative programs (all with different settings) and try them all while cruising down the road.
    You don't need a laptop to change from one preset tune to another.... Once the tunes are loaded to the tweecer module, all you have to do is turn the knob.


    jason
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  7. Foxfan88

    Foxfan88 My Grandpa has great wood.

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    sweet. the tweecer sounds great!

    does the manual or something help you get started, i seem to understand how the EEC works but as far as the actual changes to make and numbers to put in. it just seems like it will be a little overwhelming starting out, but hell i'd rather learn to tune my own car rather than pay someone to do it, that way i can take the knowledge everywhere i go and save money.

    also will i notice gains and be able to modify much before i need to learn the EEC?
    its been mentioned i can change simple things like the MAF and injector sizes, disable TAB/TAD or EGR etc etc. will there be a HP gain just in that or will i need to get more in depth to see the gains?

    and how much HP gain could i expect to see with a nice tune dialed in for my car?

    and what exactly will happen with my MAF meters. i currently and running a C&L with the tube for 19# injectors.

    is there anything i can tell the ECU about the meter itself, i am still running a stock MAF sensor. i was reading around and saw you could use any size meter along with the stock MAF sensor with any size injector instead of having to jack with all that "calibrated sensor" crap how all does the MAF stuff work. like if i upgrade to say 36# injectors, could i still run the C&L meter with the 19# sampling tube or will i still have to change to a correct tube? i also have a 75mm PRO-M meter laying around, its the kind that uses the calibrated sensors, would that meter work? i cant change tubes out on it.


    AND LOL....can someone simplify what injector high/low slope and breakpoint means exactly i dont get it

    and is it better to run a car in closed or open loop all the time? like would it be better for performance if it relies on ACT and ECT and stuff in open loop rather just the o2s in closed loop? or will the computer still convert to closed loop after all other sensors are showing good and normal readings?

    thanks again you guys have answered alot of my questions and have helped me out alot
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  8. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    The tweecer manual has been revised in the last couple of months, and is actually useful now. It is a good starting point, in addition to the links Fett provided above.
    Also, look into the Probst book for 88-93 vehicles. After a few months of tuning, the material in this book will seem pretty basic. But it will answer a lot of the questions you have, and some of the ones you don't even know to ask...
    It can be found at Amazon.com

    The MAF meter...
    Once you download the tweecer software, it will make more sense.
    For now...
    Every MAF meter has an output scale that is different from other meters. When you change the sample tube on your C&L meter, the voltage output of the meter changes.
    The setting 'MAF Transfer' allows you to tell the computer exactly what MAF is on the car. You have no need for calibrated MAF meters. When you change the injector size, you won't need to change the MAF meter; you will only make a couple of changes for the injector size.
    Since you have a ProM meter, I would plan on switching to that. I tried using a C&L, but was never able to get consistent results from it. Many others have reported the same experience.

    Closed Loop (using the O2's) allows you to take advantage of the Adaptive Strategy for improved fuel economy at light loads.
    Open loop (ignoring the O2's) does not allow the use of adaptive.
    Some folks suggest using OL all the time, but *in my opinion* that is a HACK way of tuning. A short cut for guys who don't want to learn how to tune the adaptive.
    Most often this is done to get around a part throttle drivability issue, which *seemingly* can't be fixed....

    How much power you gain, will vary. There really isn't any way for us to answer that.
    It will depend on how far off your current tune is...

    jason
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  9. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

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    Hello from the 94-95 World :D

    I lurk over here from time to time to see what you Fox boys are up to

    I've played around with the Tweecer for a while now :)

    I can bottom line it kinda like this ...........

    The Tweecer is just an interface giving you access to the pcm
    sooooo
    The Tweecer software can be learned in an hour or two :)

    Its learning about the basic operation of the PCM
    That is gonna be where you'll spend your time :Word:
    You need to know ... W H Y ... you'd want to make a change ;)

    Another way to look at this would be .......

    How could one be effective with a tool to make the pcm more suitable
    due to the addition of all their hot rod parts :scratch:

    if

    They don't understand how it works in the first place :shrug:

    Good Luck with your Self Tuning plans :nice:

    Grady
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  10. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    Well look who stayed over to the wrong side of the tracks... :)
    Don't let the other sn95'ers catch you slumming it over here :eek:




    Good to hear from ya' Grady :nice:
    jason
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  11. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

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    I just might have to spend a bit more time over here :D

    A close friend has a Notch and he asked for help with the tune :eek:

    I told him to move to a 94-95 :rlaugh:

    I really don't wanna learn another PCM :nono:

    Grady
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  12. Fett

    Fett New Member

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    Yea, it is amazing how different the 94-95 5.0 PCM is from the Fox PCM. Most of the Tweecer info I found on the net is geared more for the EEC-V 5.0. So I am now reading up on how the stock PCM works.
    #12

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