Why is my car pulling timing PART 2! Dyno graphs inside!

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Ever since I had built the new motor ive been having this problem. When the car is cold, it feels decently fast but once it warms up its just plain slow. I have confirmed this with trap speeds, and now dyno charts. It seems like the car is pulling timing when the car gets hot. Problem is, the people that have seen this car work, dont think its actually getting hot. I had a napa sensor that i guessed might have been giving false readings, so today I swapped it for an OEM Ford one ($18 used ). That wasnt the case, once the car warms up and I got WOT, it jumps up to 254*. In my first pull, I guess it didnt get hot enough and stayed at 18* total timing at WOT. On the second run, it pulled timing down to 8.5* TOTAL. The guys at the shop think that its a short in the wire or something. What do you guys think? How do I start to diagnose this? I have copys of my CalCon datalogs for both of these runs if anyone wants to take a look. Thanks guys.

Keep in mind that these pulls are within 10 minutes of each other, with no change to my tune

 

[final5-0]

Did you ever look at those ect/act spark adder functions we were talking about in that other thread?

Like me, you use the j4j1 and I have had good results with only using the base table.

Of course, unlike me, you are blown so I understand you need to be more careful.

Here is one thing I wonder about

In the function spark_retard_for_ECT it does look like to me the hotter things get, the more it pulls spark.

I have never messed with that function so all I could tell you is to make tiny changes and see if it makes a diff.

You got the dlogs ... does it seem to pull spark every time the temp rises

btw, there is a function where the ACT can pull spark as well.

Those are the only kinds of ideas I can think of at this time.

Grady

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Even then, why am I getting a reading of 254* ECT at WOT? Isnt that super-hot? Whats yours at?

 

[69clark]

You know I had a similar problem as you. I fixed it but I still don't know why to this day I was having the problem. I'll explain. Just so you know I use a Tweecer.

I tried tuning the timing being pulled out through the tweecer but the number were just not adding up. It was pulling more timing than any of the tables or fuctions were indicating it should have. I couldn't ever figure it out. At this point I had a crane cams ignition box and coil. I wanted to upgrade to a complete MSD ignition box and coil. I didn't think this was the problem but it was just one of those mods I wanted to do. Well once I changed it to MSD the computer was no longer pulling out way too much timing. The timing that was dataloged was what the tables and fuctions show it should have been.

So I don't know why this fixed my problem other than the possibilty there was something wrong with the crane cams ignition I was running.

 

[final5-0]

Even then, why am I getting a reading of 254* ECT at WOT? Isnt that super-hot? Whats yours at?

That does sound too hot

V1.20 has a bug in the CBAZA family where you can log act or ect but not both at the same time

I know this is not what you want to hear but, since I upgraded my wp & rad, I run nice and cool so I havent dled ect in forever.

I got a gut feeling it has something to do with your msd or the act

Grady

 

[Don 95Vert]

If you used the T4M0 spark the ECT will pull 8.5* at 254* temp - on a J4J1 it'll pull almsot 12* - so IF your ECT is sending the right temp and IF you are running the spark curve you should be with a blower, your total spark is probably correct. That's not to say the motor is right - because if the ECT temp is really 254 (254 is max - so it may be higher) then you have other issues. The ECT is pulling spark for a reason - a good reason. If it were my car I wouldn't worry about the ECT adder pulling spark, I'd worry about the temp being so high. That said, I doubt the temp IS that high, you either have a bad ECT, a wiring problem an air bubble in contact with the ECT instead of coolant or the TwEECer is going banana's. The motor really would not run good at that temp - at 250* and above, I'd guess you'd be well past the puking coolant stage.

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

The car really runs fine, just pulls timing. I dont have the means to do a compression test here at USF, but ill be home easter weekend and I can try then. I dont think the ECT is bad, thats the second sensor ive installed, and this one is OEM Ford. How can I check the wiring? Heres the link to the thread on EECTuning if you want to look at their guesses.

http://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6073&highlight=

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Update: Did some datalogging real quick at cruising speed and the ECT jumps around from 210-218* when cruising at around 30-40mph and idle. Thats hot isnt it? What should it be at? I have a 180* t-stat.

 

[blksn955.o]

are your fans turning on????

what are your fan settings at?

I made a quick tune one time when I first got the tweecer and ran a modded fan temp setting and switched back and forth to the stock setting (in a diff. tune). I noticed about a 6-12* temp diff. at cruise from the fan setting alone with my 180-tstat.

I would put a guage on that sucker to make sure its not getting hot, I would also check for a blown HG....

If you want to do a quick test on if your comp. gasses are getting into you coolant...

take out plugs one at a time with the rad. cap off. Put a air gun nozzle in the cyl. and if its a bad gasket at that cyl. bubbles will come out of the rad. You will have to do this for each cyl.

I had a bad HG (just a faulty gasket) that did not seal and comp. gasses were getting into the rad. sys. The rad. cannot cool all that heat.

just something to check that is not too hard to do.

 

[final5-0]

At a cruise like that, the load is very light, and you got the air flow through the rad and all.

I'd think you'd be around 190 to 200.

I base that off some very old dlogs back when I was running ported E7's and the stock rad/wp.

How about the rest of the members who can supply accurate data from temp gauges, dlogs and such get involved and help Keven out here

I'm kinda wondering if your rad might be partially stopped up

Grady

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

are your fans turning on????

what are your fan settings at?

I made a quick tune one time when I first got the tweecer and ran a modded fan temp setting and switched back and forth to the stock setting (in a diff. tune). I noticed about a 6-12* temp diff. at cruise from the fan setting alone with my 180-tstat.

I would put a guage on that sucker to make sure its not getting hot, I would also check for a blown HG....

If you want to do a quick test on if your comp. gasses are getting into you coolant...

take out plugs one at a time with the rad. cap off. Put a air gun nozzle in the cyl. and if its a bad gasket at that cyl. bubbles will come out of the rad. You will have to do this for each cyl.

I had a bad HG (just a faulty gasket) that did not seal and comp. gasses were getting into the rad. sys. The rad. cannot cool all that heat.

just something to check that is not too hard to do.

Yeah, ill try that when I get home too, I jsut dont have any tools over here at USF. I did mess with my fan speeds before, ill double check them later. Im also gonna try throwing in a new thermostat.

 

[blksn955.o]

like grady posted...

with the fan speed changed to that given in the faq section above for a 180 stat. I ran a temp of 192-194 in my logs and on the autometer guage it showed that as well .

When I ran the stock settings it was quite a bit hotter on the hwy by the guage it was like 196-200-ish in about 1min. of driving time or less. The temps came right back down once I switched to the modded fan tune.

 

[final5-0]

A freebie from yours truly

My scalars values__stock j4j1__stock t4m0

fan_high_speed_ECT1_on 208 224 224
fan_high_speed_ECT2_on 212 228 228
fan_high_speed_ECT_off 204 220 220
fan_low_speed_ECT_off 190 212 204
fan_low_speed_ECT_on 194 216 208

Grady

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Bump, still havent fixed this. I did a compression check and got 160 across the board.

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Anyone else want to guess? I think im going to pay someone to take a look at it.

 

[final5-0]

Anyone else want to guess? I think im going to pay someone to take a look at it.

I thihk I saw on the Tweecer site you were gonna get some way to see if you were indeed getting as hot as you suspected.

What was the outcome if that did happen?

Grady

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Ill tell you tomorrow when I finish hooking up my water temp guage!

 

[BlueOvalStangGT]

Fixed it! I replaced the ECU with one from a wrecked 94 and :thumbsup