zero oil pressure, lifters tickin'-whattya think?

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by livenfine, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. livenfine

    livenfine New Member

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    Just before my last race, I started the car and no oil pressure, tickin lifters. Shut it down and pulled the distributor to find my oil pump drive shaft twisted like a licorice stick. (BTW, I used a prestone anti-freeze tester hose to pull the broken shaft.)

    Ok, so my pump is seized up. But why. It'll cost me at least a day to lift the engine, pull the pan and change the pump. What do you think caused the failure? Should I just replace the pump and see what happens? or Is there some preventive measures I should take.

    Thanks!
     
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  2. BlackFox5.0

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    I'm no expert, but just like anything mechanical, it can fail... I don't see how something could have jammed it, but it could happen, the only way to find out it to take it apart....
     
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  3. dastang2

    dastang2 Active Member

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    is it an aftermarket pump. some of those, i have heard locked up.
     
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  4. livenfine

    livenfine New Member

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    To my knowledge it's all stock.
     
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  5. mustangrfast88

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    well what is done to the engine and what cause a oil pump shaft is most of the time metal shavings in the oil causing the pump to lock up
     
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  6. Pop-Pops-Pony

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    Ditto the shavings in the pump...Check out the oil when you drain it for metal...

    Did a cheap rebuild the first time and had the pump seize...Found a shaving in the pump that was to big to pass through the screen...Must have been in the pump (it was new) when built... :bang:
     
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  7. Michael Yount

    Michael Yount Advanced Member

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    I'd say the next step is to get more info. With the shaft out of the engine, I'd pull the plugs and use the starter to turn the motor over a bit - not too much, no oil pump. See if there are any untoward sounds/noises. I'd pull the pan and pump. See what else (hopefully nothing) is in the bottom of the pan. I'd take the pump apart and see what you find - you're gonna replace it anyhow. I'd pull the valve covers and be sure rockers/pushrods/valve springs are all doing what they should, nothing bent, etc. Somewhere along the way you'll likely uncover something that will give you more clues as to what happened. But I like the way you're thinking - what locked up the pump? The bent shaft is the symptom, not the illness.
     
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  8. Ranchero5.0

    Ranchero5.0 The Voice of Reason

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    Also, 50wt racing oil will lock a pump up on a cold day. You're asking an awful lot of a 1/4" hex shaft to drive a positive displacement pump.

    Jamie
     
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  9. livenfine

    livenfine New Member

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    Thanks for the input! :D Not looking forward to pulling the pan, I hear it's not a fun job :( but if you wanna play...
     
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  10. what_stanger?

    what_stanger? I am the mailman!!
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    sorry if i'm late on this..

    i didn't even check the year or your car...

    the oil pump pickups are different in the newer fox cars, the screens are designed so they can't come 'loose'

    my car chucked an oil pump, twice....the first owner simply put a new pump in, left the debris and old pickup..... and then it failed on me...

    i cleaned it out good, and put a new style pickup on it, and an ARP shaft (thats the breakpoint,i shoulda got stock) with a melling OE pump...

    never had a problem since...

    BTW my pickups screen was wiggly at the top, and it was possible to let stuff pass through it, leading to the sieze of the pump.....what seized it i don't know, but its not there anymore because i cleaned it all out good...

    good luck.
     
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  11. what_stanger?

    what_stanger? I am the mailman!!
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    lol so what i'm saying is buy a new style pickup, its worth it to get a new one anywho..... its not that expensive....

    check the screen on your 90? might as well do precautions since you'll be in the engine anyways.....
     
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  12. 1986LX2002

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    My Friend and I built up a 502 chevy "yah yah I worked on a chevy" and had everything together put it in his 67 Chevelle turned it on and no Oil pressure. Checked the Obvious stuff first then turned out attention to the oil pan and pick up tube. Come to find out the Pick up tube sat too high up for the pan "about a 1/4" too high" So we bent it just a little bit and bam! We had a steady 50psi! Not saying this is your problem but just something you might wanna check or keep in mind.
     
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  13. EMW150

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    When you pull the cover off the pump, you'll see what did it. Debris has a way of getting around the pickup screen. I saw one with a decent sized piece of a snap ring off of a rocker arm lodged in the pump. I still don't know how it got past the screen but it did. When you find the piece then you gotta figure out where it came from so you can see what else you need to fix, if anything. Pieces of permatex can even lock them up.
     
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  14. livenfine

    livenfine New Member

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    Ok, now the obvious question. How to get to the pump.

    I did my motor mounts last month, pulled the h-pipe, etc and barely could raise the engine high enough to get the mounts out, much less the pan.

    Should I:
    Lift the engine with a jack?
    Pull the engine.? or
    Remove the k-member and access it from below?

    Again, many thanks.
     
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  15. dastang2

    dastang2 Active Member

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    jack it up put jack stands on the car and jack the motor up or hoist the motor up some with a chain hoist while you work. theres room, you just have to find it. unbolt the tranny mounts too.
     
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  16. livenfine

    livenfine New Member

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    Tell me more about this "new style pickup". Something I can get from NAPA? Thanks.
     
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  17. Michael Yount

    Michael Yount Advanced Member

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    If you've got the equipment to do it, pullin' the engine and putting it on a stand allows you to invert it, really do a good job of cleaning things up, and being certain your new gasket is gonna seal. If there's anything else you wanted to do - with the engine out, now's your time. That would be my first choice.

    But anyway you go, there are fluids to drain, and big stuff to move. My concern with trying to do it just lifting the engine would be getting in there, and realizing after screwing around with it for hours that you're gonna need to pull it or drop the K member anyhow; then you'd have been quicker just doing that to start with. But there are people who get them swapped just by lifting the motor up.
     
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  18. what_stanger?

    what_stanger? I am the mailman!!
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    i got a 93 oil pump pickup from ford dealer...

    the screen is attached differently, my old screen was wiggly and would allow stuff to get past it...

    i lifted my engine by the a/c bracket if i remember, couldn't get the pan out itself, but i could work fairly decent on it and such...

    i put a new melling OE pump on, the 93 style pickup, and (actually think its 92, who knows.....maybe all new ones are like that now) an S.C.E. rubber one peice oil pan gasket, that was 20k miles ago....
     
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  19. livenfine

    livenfine New Member

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    UPDATE: Shortly after this thread started I jacked up the engine, (after taking everything off) Probably about 4-5 inches. Dropped the pan and had to remove the oil pump through a 3-4" gap between the block and the pan. Putting the pan gasket back on was a chore, actually the whole thing was a chore, but the car fired up right away and haven't heard a peep since. Autocrossed it 3 days later with no probs.

    BTW, there is much more to it than this. Do some research, don't forget to prime the pump, If you have the time/money follow Yount's advice. Pull it and do it right...thanks for all the help!
     
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