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Mike, Mike, Mike! STOP!
I think you are wasting your time. Really all you need is a plenum that the runners can draw off from, which you have. Length of runner is less then insignificant as the intake valve opens the engine is not drawing air in. It is actually being forced in from the pressure differential between the manifold pressure and the cylinder negative pressure. If you try to make long runners and create a long distance between the plenum you may restrict air flow. Long runner in a NA engine are there to protect reversion between the pressure wave pulse.

Honestly are you seeing distribution issues with the current design? If not why change it?
Scott
 
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Mike, Mike, Mike! STOP!
I think you are wasting your time. Really all you need is a plenum that the runners can draw off from, which you have. Length of runner is less then insignificant as the intake valve opens the engine is not drawing air in. It is actually being forced in from the pressure differential between the manifold pressure and the cylinder negative pressure. If you try to make long runners and create a long distance between the plenum you may restrict air flow. Long runner in a NA engine are there to protect reversion between the pressure wave pulse.

Honestly are you seeing distribution issues with the current design? If not why change it?
Scott

Because it will look cooler that what he has, and he hasn't fabbed anything for a while and cannot not cut and weld something every once in a while! Hush you!

Edit: Mike, you done yet?
 
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I've never really seen an equal length intake. :thinking:oh...yes I have...

Usually, there is a log and runners coming off from it. Guess that's what you have in mind....since you referenced the gt40.

The chamber of the intake is just as important as the tubes. The bigger the chamber the less effect the turbulence has. Its kinda like an air bladder in the intake tube...it helps smooth out the pulses....but if too large it will cause idle issues. That idle issue ( in theory ) would be caused by the throttle closing and more area of air to be pulled into vacuum. So....essentially....when you let of the gas the idle will hang until the vacuum builds. Same vice versa....when hitting the gas the air will have to fill the chamber first before it makes its way into the cylinders.

I think curves and length could be a bad thing for water meth. It seems like it could allow the water to condense a little....but we are talking about air being sucked through those tubes pretty fast.

I have no idea about any of this stuff. Just adding my .02 regardless how useless it is. At least it'll make you think about it.
 
How much is it gonna hurt the top end,....and do I care?

Your new manifold is going to look like a fireplace log with 6 branches sticking out of it by the time you get though with it. Will there be enough room to accommodate the runner length you want?

See here for help to calculate the plenum volume ...
https://www.google.com/search?ei=yM.....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.163....0.xi-_rR_nZV8


My response was going to be that it depends on how large the intake is. I would try to do a tube slightly larger inside diameter than a ported Lightning intake.
 
93-95_Yamaha_ATX.jpg
 
Mike, Mike, Mike! STOP!
I think you are wasting your time. Really all you need is a plenum that the runners can draw off from, which you have. Length of runner is less then insignificant as the intake valve opens the engine is not drawing air in. It is actually being forced in from the pressure differential between the manifold pressure and the cylinder negative pressure. If you try to make long runners and create a long distance between the plenum you may restrict air flow. Long runner in a NA engine are there to protect reversion between the pressure wave pulse.

Honestly are you seeing distribution issues with the current design? If not why change it?
Scott


True, unless he goes N/A.
 
The stock 2.3 liter plenumb Half Ferrari 512i BB/Testa Rosa or BMW 635i style stock 4.1 liter Ford Cross Flow six cylinder type was used in most turbo instillations from 1983 to 1992. It was a supplied via Bosch in Germany, who did the development work for Ford Australia. They did the Injection Ferraris and BMW's the same time they did the Ford X-flow six.

xeefi.jpg


XF_Fairmont_Ghia_Turbo_102.jpg


The 1980-1987 Garret AirResearch Australia and laterly, AIT 3.3/4.1 liter Ford Cross Flow six cylinder type was another, both upstream

aitturboxe1984.jpg


There are other kinds of more "5.0 Ford EFi" style header tubes for Port EFi 6ixes. Some updraft, some down draft.

Mercedes Benz always used Daft Steam Punk style runners, often updraft like a pre World War II carb mount.

When the Thunderbird MN12 style EA 26 got the go ahead from head office in 1984, Ford Australia then had massive hood space restrictions, so it employed the "sort of" Daimler Benz M103 style low mount Independent Runner branch to the single throttle body.

MercedesBenz300TEEngineblockM103983.jpg




It looked like this in 186 to 216 hp form from 1988-1992 EA and EB S pack and XR6 3.9 liter OHC Falcons.

EB_MPI_XR6_4000_SOHC.jpg


They package really well on the 9.22" tall SOHC's based on the ancient overhead valve 250 block.
To do the same, its just like this to do a bunch of banana's intake

81_fairmont_i6_project_cderman_exFSP_ADAM_THE_MAN.jpg


However, a few years earlier, the 142 hp GM Holden Commodore XT6 3.3 Liter 202 Electronic Injection intake looked like this.

1985VKHoldenCommodoreElectronicInjection33literHeadersEFIandseparteTankcompactpowersteeringunit.jpg


1985VKHoldenCalaiswithfactorystockEI33withSC14OguraSuperchargerandMicrotechECU1.jpg


DSCN7148sm.jpg


It REALLY produces the goods on a little 3.3 liter six that normally is restricted to about 300 hp at 7000 rpm without an aluminum cylinder head. With the best cylinder head around (zjello's remastered knock off of the Phil Irving 12 port Heron head), they go up to 370 hp at 7000rpm.

With 30 pounds of boost, a moderate 215 hp solid lifter 3.3 with this kind of EFi intake then makes 403 rwhp and 600 hp at the flywheel on 30 pounds of boost and 20 degrees of total spark lead. The cast alloy solid skirt Mahale XU1 pistons that Repco and ACL made for the 1972-1973 Bathurst race cars can survive regular 7500 rpm use, and as long as the fuel delivery and spark advance is kept in check, a 30 pound boost engine with forged rods and those pistons can carry well over 6000 rpm thrashes. Like, 7500 rpm.

The best example was the January 2003 Australian Street Machine preview of the Western Australian Mick Munro's OVA BOOST.

It was put together while he was still working for FORMAZ. On the strength of this 9.92@135 mph Power Glide and 28 x 11.5 wheeled 2400 pounder, Mick started OVA BOOST Engineering. Sadly, it became 2JZ after he eventually threw a rod in this Holden 202 in line six, but it took about 5 years of thrashing to do it.

ovaboost_performance_mic_munro_001.jpg


ovaboost_performance_mic_munro_995.jpg


ovaboost_performance_mic_munro_996.jpg


ovaboost_performance_mic_munro_997.jpg
ovaboost_performance_mic_munro_998.jpg
 
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It wasn't GASSED250, but a guy called Jayd copied another members 250 EFI to EA-EB MultiPoint EFI intake.

It had a killer 250 with custom inlet and pipes and nitrous, ran a 10.8 Stanging 1/4 mile unboosted with Nitrous. Both turned the EA-EB Benz style intake runner upside down.

This pretty much what you are looking at I guess

ford-6-cylinder-tickford-engine1.jpg


Oct_03_04_61.jpg



You take the SOHC EA 3.9 or EB XR6 3.9/4.0 intake, and turn it upside down

14951373884051261.jpg


Ford Australia developed it intially as an Upstream Port EFi Straight Eight DOHC intake for the 1985 concept of the T drive Thunderbird. Basically a 4.3 liter version of the 3.2 liter in line Six based on the old 200

Ford-T-Drive.jpg


The EA-EB stuff fits any 1980-1992 X-flow OHV head

F79C2399%20theres%20a%20guy%20on%20xfalcon%20that%20is%20running%20eb%20efi%20on%20a%20crossy.jpg
 
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Hello gents.....Happy New Year's Eve.

Yesterday I worked. Both of my female counterparts have managed to finagle their work schedules so as to get two ( of the 4) Saturday's off each month where I only get one. That means that there are occasions where I end up working by myself on a Saturday......And on this Saturday,.....the last Saturday of the month,....the last Saturday of the year,....it was ape sht busy. Typically,..on a normally busy day, it's not uncommon to assist with 6-8 deliveries where I'll go over all of the functions of their new car, pair their new phone,...and make sure they're comfortable and feel secure in the new car. This process is typically about 30 minutes....

Yesterday, I did 13 of those...

in essence, I talked non stop for 6.5 hours. And didn't leave till 7:45 when we closed at 6:00....

I was in no mood to do anything but have dinner, sit in my chair,...have a drink,..and go to bed.

But the wife had plans for me,....I had a dinner party to go to at her friends house.....And the dinner consisted of blechky food.....Mushroom risotto,....with big slimy mushrooms, stuffed mushrooms, with even bigger slimy mushrooms,..and home made crab cakes...none of which would have been that bad, despite not being what I'd ever order on a menu,..except that it was hot at 6:30.....and I didn't get there till 8:15...

Add "Luke warm" to the slimy mushroom part...

When I got home, and saw all of this input from you all,......it was just too much to comprehend....my brain shut down....I went into hibernate mode.

But today is a new day......

My idea was not to use a common plenum.
41plxn8dbxl-_sx300_-jpg.596318.jpg

*I doubt that I'd see any benefit over the existing manifold with this design,..and the visual isn't different enough to justify going through all of this.

pc080008-jpg.596334.jpg

This is too rough, and primitive looking, even if it works good. No, says the finger.:nono:

The factory version of the intake makes getting to the top bolts, and the injectors a giant pain in the ass.
xf_fairmont_ghia_turbo_102-jpg.596332.jpg

And I'm not trading away one pain in the ass for another one.

If I could get a plenum under the runners I'd consider a look like this:
eb_mpi_xr6_4000_sohc-jpg.596322.jpg


But that forces a rethink on the existing water pump system that lives under the intake manifold,...so,...more work than what it's worth.

Ironically,...this is the concept seed that is growing in the grey matter forest inside my head...
93-95_yamaha_atx-jpg.596317.jpg

So,....more topic for discussion.....

If I split a plenum and feed two banks of three cylinders ( much in the same way I'm feeding the twin scroll turbo)
Do we think there'll be any negative/positive benefit to feeding cyls 123 from one common plenum, and 456 from another? Chrysler did it almost 60 years ago...
1200px-413crossram.jpg

( I'll bet this was a real btch to get started)
They linked the two plenums together,...you can barely see it in the above pic...
383.gif

But much more clearly here...

So,...this is how it works with me,....I've got all of these "ingredients" now,...I've just gotta mix them all together, and throw it in the oven to bake...
Then when it's done,....ill do a taste test....and probably throw it in the trash.

I'll change the mix, and re-bake.........wait till it cools,...take another bite...

Maybe it'll see the trash can,....maybe it won't.
 
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The trouble is that this is a V6. It would be difficult to do an equal length this way with all your intake ports on one side.
@madmike1157
383-gif.596364.gif

Something you may not know...
Notice the runners in the photo... They are cast in pairs. Chrysler wanted to use the same layout as the larger 413 but with a higher RPM tuned band. Soo they did a sneaky; they removed part of the divider inside the paired tubes where they joined the plenum, effectively making the paired section a part of the plenum. They could take one common external casting and play with the internal casting mold and get almost any runner length they wanted. Mike could do the same thing.
 
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