351w local rebuilders??
- Thread starter wazazzle
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Dave Bliss would be the best. He's in the Puyallup area. If you are not in a hurry he'd be good. I have a rebuilt 351 sitting in my garage, if you have an emergency. Does the C6 have a small block bellhousing?
stock50LX said:
i've heard of Dave before but doesn't he actually work at someones shop? or does he do side work? about the c6, i'm not to familiar with auto's. my LX has the stock t5 so i'm curious how that's gonna hold if i put 4v on it and get 380 trq. cant find any article swapping from t5 to c6. it supposedly came from a '69 351w. it has the pan, no torque conv, cut at opposite side of drive shaft, so i dunno?....how is yours setup? really don't want to spend $$$$ on g-force t5 or tko600. plus i only use for commute, never track.
wazazzle said:
A c6 is big and heavy and overkill for the street, but if you already have one, might as well use it. It's so big, I suspect you'll need to run shorty headers. I have a T5 that continues to flourish under 11 second passes. What do you mean by "a cut at opposite side of drive shaft"?
Dave has his own shop. He sometimes uses helpers and he has other people (Haskell) do his head porting.
my suspesion is that the c6 might have been on a fox before. because i believe if it goes on a fox the drive shaft has to be shortened... is your t5 rebuilt with aftermarket internals or is it all stock? i know a cobra was rated at 310ft lbs torque, which is not enough, especially is stock its putting out 350-380trq. if i can leave the tranny & rear end stock i would love too. just don't want to worry about hwy accelerating/passing and leaving my rearend on the hwy. i'm gonna call him this afternoon, maybe stop by the shop after work. it's on the way i live in graham.
wazazzle said:
Wait a minute. You are concerned about daily driving with a 351 and stock 8.8 and t5? You'll have no problems. Save your money.
I have a "World Class" which is a barely modified T-5.
yes,,, i'm more concerned about daily driving with a '69 351w and stock 8.8/t5. maybe occassional honda eating. if the t5 is rated max 300ft lbs torque and i plan on swapping the 2bbl into 4bbl to get 290hp/385ft lbs torque. i don't think it will hold. (i just talked to dave he's backed up for a few months & $2500-$3000. i could buy a new engine or s.charger for that!) i'm look for about a grand, which i know is possible cause i've heard people talk about how much they paid.)
Save your money. The T5 will hold up for what you are doing. It may wear-out but any trans would. I am making a lot more power than you are contemplating and it's holding up for me.
I rebuild my own engines and with boring, having the crank turned, balancing, ring and gasket kit, and new KB hyper pistons, it costs me about a grand to rebuild, so I cannot see how you can get it done by someone else for that -unless you are going to buy remanufactured from Schucks. I just want to be realistic with you regarding the cost. I recommend you do it yourself. It's not difficult.
I rebuild my own engines and with boring, having the crank turned, balancing, ring and gasket kit, and new KB hyper pistons, it costs me about a grand to rebuild, so I cannot see how you can get it done by someone else for that -unless you are going to buy remanufactured from Schucks. I just want to be realistic with you regarding the cost. I recommend you do it yourself. It's not difficult.
wazazzle said:
Don't take the factory recommendations so literally. My engine is making over 400 fwhp and the T-5 has held up since 1999. Just reference how much power it takes to push a 3250 lb car into the 11's at 116 mph.
lamrith
Founding Member
It is all in how you shift with a T5. they do not like powershifts, THAT is what kills them more often than not.
THe 8.8 in stock trim is widely known to support up to 500+RWHP as demonstrated by a number of local people.
Save your $$ on your drivetrain and put it in the motor. I'm with Stock on this. Maybe take the motor to a shop to have the machinework done, but build it up yourself, I am sure someone here with the knowledge would be willing to help if you throw a few beers or something thier way...
FYI - If I knew how I would help, but I don't yet...
THe 8.8 in stock trim is widely known to support up to 500+RWHP as demonstrated by a number of local people.
Save your $$ on your drivetrain and put it in the motor. I'm with Stock on this. Maybe take the motor to a shop to have the machinework done, but build it up yourself, I am sure someone here with the knowledge would be willing to help if you throw a few beers or something thier way...
FYI - If I knew how I would help, but I don't yet...
wazazzle said:
Machining can vary depending on what you need, but here's what I paid last time:
Boring and degreasing
cam bearing installation
plugs replacement
pressing pistons on rods $360.
Turning crankshaft $85
balancing $150.
KB pistons $210.
Engine kit (including timing chain and oil pump) $180.
You can check workmanship with a plastic gauge, but they are not totally reliable.
Take the block to South Tacoma National. You'll need to know how much to bore the block before you order the pistons so ask them to check it and then order the pistons. Take the pistons to them and have the block bored and honed for that specific piston. They will degrease the block and replace all plugs and the cam bearings. You'll need to call around for someone to turn your crankshaft. I can recommend someone, if needed. Then you send the crank, pistons, rods, flywheel, pressure plate and dampner to be balanced. While the rotating assembly is away, you can order an engine kit (since you would know the needed bearing sizes for the crank), and the piston rings, gaskets, and oil pump. When it comes back from the balancer, put it together (you will probably need to get the pistons pressed to the rods by the machine shop, first). It doesn't take long to assemble. There are a number of books on assembling SBF's.
Hmmm... That's probably a bit overwhelming, isn't it? But you can rebuild your purchased 351 while you are driving your old one, right? Waterhouse can do all that I described in one place, but they are a bit expensive. They may be the best option for you since that would simplify your task.
lamrith
Founding Member
I did not have my motor balanced, but I had South Tacoma do my entire rebuild on my 302. Talk to Dave in the machine shop, he knows his Fords. They did all my block and crank work. THey may farm part of it out, but for me it was nice to dropp it off and a week later go pick-up a rebuilt motor... Price was good too,but I was getting a basic rebuild not a performance one..
i think what im gonna do is take everything apart myself. atleast i can do that. have everything hot tanked or cleaned. paint it myself, send it back for boring/honing info-buy pistons. then order a rebuild kit on summit or ebay $500. pickup some KB heads too, saw some on ebay $100. i want to do as much of the rebuild myself so that i can understand engines better. plus self satisfaction. if someone has done 351w install/experience and is willing to help install it at my house. i might just give them my running stock '89 5.0ho engine, beer, & pizza.
lamrith said:
One Dave has gone to run the NAPA machine shop on 96th -don't know if he's the one who knew Fords. They farm-out their balancing to Waterhouse. Not sure about cranks, but I think those are farmed out too. I agree though. Get it done by one party otherwise it's going to be too much of a headache.
How much did they charge for assembly? -Whatever happened to Pacific National Machine shop? Does it still exist under a new name?
wazazzle said:
Those are good reasons to assemble it yourself. I would be willing to help you assemble it, if you bring the parts to my house. You could then take the finished block back to Graham to install. I have a hoist to move the thing and an engine stand. Do you have a truck?
Another option: Have your block bored. Buy a stroker kit $1000- $1400. Have it balanced (That might cost $350.), and you are ready to assemble.
If you purchased a complete '69 351, you already have pretty good heads. You need to have them ported a little and they will provide good power. I can show you how to port them. You should have hardened exhaust seats installed though. I have a ported set of those going on my truck.
stock50LX said:
"kb" i actually meant keith black piston heads. the crane & stand i already have. my father could let me use his truck. 393 strokers on ebay $700, i'm going to research them a bit more. i researched the head codes last night-they ARE '69. same kind for 2v & 4v, but isn't it cheaper & better to buy new? you said port them but doesn't the head need be rebuilt w/new parts? the hardened exhaust seats, not sure what you mean???? i may actually take you on your offer though.
wazazzle said:
The heads are C90E castings if they belong with the block. The more I think about your knowledge level and the slim choice of machine shops, the more I am convinced you should just take all parts to Waterhouse.
If you go the stroker route you can have South Tacoma National prep the block but you MUST get the rotating assembly balanced (They're usually way out of balance so the cost is higher than normal).
KB does not make heads. They make pistons. If you want more compression than stock pistons provide, KB will be the cheapest way to go. They make a variety of cast pistons with varying compression ratios. But if you just rebuild that '69 block to stock specs, you'll have decent compression and the cost will be reduced. That would be my recommendation for you: stock rebuild and stock heads with some porting. You'll make good power with a mild cam.
The debate over heads and what is cost effective is endless. My perception of your budget and intended use for the car tells me that using the stock heads might be a good option. You can get hardened seats installed (for unleaded gas) and do a little porting or have a little done. Retain the stock valves and studs to reduce cost. I would recommend new springs too ($65.). The overall cost would be a fraction of the cost of aftermarket heads.
You were fortunate to get a '69 block and heads. That engine provides the best 351 parts. The cost of rebuilding the '69 to stock specs would probably be less than half the cost of a stroker. Of course, if you now have a 302 in the car and you are putting-in a 351, you will have many additional costs. For your use, I would highly recommend staying with a 302. Use the ported C90E heads on your 302 for a boost in performance.
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